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Invitation or Summons

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Luke2427, Dec 28, 2010.

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  1. Invitation

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  2. Summons

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    When he came to them in verse 1 they were lost. That is the set up for verse 14.

     
  2. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Don't think so. You specifically stated that verse 1 spoke of their condition; it does not. It is Paul speaking of his own preaching style, and why he preached that way. The 'set-up' for verse 14 actually occurs in the build-up from verses 6-13.
     
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Were they already saved when Paul found them in your estimation?
     
  4. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Here are just a few commentaries:


     
  5. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't matter what my estimation is or might be; your statement is that this verse talks about their condition. I contend that it does not.

    And yet, none of those address your statement about 1 Cor 2:1, do they?

    Did you, or did you not, specifically state that this verse spoke of their condition? Does it talk about their condition, or is it Paul talking about the way he preached to them?
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I don't think I said that but it does give the setting of the text. He is speaking about what went on in his ministry when he arrived at Corinth.

    He was physically weak but spiritually powerful. thru verse 5

    He imparted hidden wisdom in verse 6.

    None of the rulers of this age understood it in verse 7.

    They are revealed by the Spirit in verse 10.

    No one can comprehend these things that Paul preached when he first came to Corinth, that the rulers of this world did not understand causing them to crucify Christ- no one can get them but by the Spirit of God in verse 11.

    We have not received the Spirit of the world but of God so that we CAN get these spiritual things in verse 12.

    Paul does not impart these things in human wisdom but spiritual wisdom in verse 13.

    BUT the NATURAL man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God... NEITHER CAN HE.

    Now, Don, I've given a half dozen commentaries both Calvinistic and Arminian, I've given the context,

    It is not your turn to do some work to prove YOUR notion that verse 14 is talking about carnal Christians.
     
  7. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    From the first post of Page 6 of this thread:
    -----

    From the bottom of Page 6 of this thread:
     
  8. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78 New Member

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    Amen: The goodness of God has lead me to repentance. I still feared going to hell before I was born again. I believe a fear has to set up in someone heart before they even want to do anything about there soul. I know a fear set up in my heart. I feared going to a devils hail. I feared what God would do to me. I was preach to that I had to be born again and that I had to lay my life down and to deny myself and that repentance is required at the hands of every man. I cried unto the Lord and felt this warmth in my soul and felt all my burden lift off of my chest. I felt this warmth in my soul when I ask Jesus to forgive me and with a eye of faith I seen my savior on the cross dieing for my transgressions . How wonderful of a God we have and how his glory and love has filled my life. I give him the glory and honor. Trust On God and he will hold you up and keep you forever. God bless.
     
    #88 charles_creech78, Dec 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2010
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I did not see this.

    Are you saying that you now see verse 14 as lost men or what? I am not clear.

    It SEEMS that is what you are saying. Pardon my ignorance.
     
  10. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    As part of what Paul is telling the church of Corinth about how they're acting - yes. That's what I mean by the link between chapters 2 and 3.

    Put another way, almost anecdotally: the unsaved man cannot understand; but you who are saved are acting like the unsaved, acting carnally, without understanding. Does that make sense?
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yep, and I think you are right that that is what Paul is saying in chapter three.

    But in 2:14 he describes an unregenerate man. Are we on the same page on this now?
     
  12. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    I believe we are.
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Perhaps we should call it a night on that note and talk about it further another time. We ought to revel is these rare occasions! :thumbs:
     
  14. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Before we do - where do we stand on your statement regarding 1 Cor 2:1?
     
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I answered that in post 86
     
  16. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Kind sir, I refer you to post #87.
     
  17. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    The clear understanding is that when he came to them they were not saved, hence the need to preach the Gospel to them in Spirit power.

    Chapter two shows a contrast between those who receive such preaching and those who do not.

    The unregenerate natural man does not.

    That is the summation of chapter 2.

    That the Corinthians were not saved when Paul "came" to them in verse one is manifest.
     
  18. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    The reason I'm holding onto this one is because you're injecting meaning into the verse that isn't there. Please refer back to the many commentaries that you've identified; the many that I've referenced throughout the day identify verses 1-5 as a description of Paul's preaching and as to why he preached in that style. None of them identify this verse, or verses 2-5, as an identification of regenerative or unregenerative state of being. Those descriptions and comments are reserved for the later verses.

    Would it outright kill you to admit that you possibly mis-spoke (mis-wrote?) about this particular verse?
     
  19. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    If that will get you to move on I will gladly say that even if it isn't so.

    It IS speaking about Paul's preaching but he is preaching to people who are lost.

    Now that is it. I ahve made it clear.

    No commentary you have found says this because it is so plain.

    That he is speaking of lost people in chapter two is abundantly clear.

    I did not misspeak.

    But if you will move on to something else I will consider LYING and letting you have your way.:BangHead:
     
  20. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    I'm not asking you to lie; I'm not asking for anyone to "let me have my way."

    You clearly stated that the verse speaks of their condition when he found them; the verse does not speak of this. It speaks of Paul preaching without excellency of speech, or wisdom.

    The chapter, without question, speaks of lost people; there is no argument. The only correction I'm asking of you is your mis-statement regarding verse 1.

    If you can't admit this, then you are already lying -- to yourself. Further, you damage your own testimony by not admitting that you simply mis-spoke regarding one verse out of over 31,000 in the Bible.

    If you can provide a commentary for 1 Cor 2:1-5 that indicates these verses are speaking of lost people, which would then substantiate your claim that verse 1 speaks of the condition of the sinner, then--just as I have done before--I will gladly recant and admit my error.

    (reminder: the commentaries you've presented previously are focused around verse 14. You need to provide commentary references specifically focused on verse 1)

    If you can't, then simply say you can't and let's move on. I don't need you to start a thread with the title "Luke was wrong," or use some super-sized font; just looking for you to admit that you're human, and once in a while, while not actually making a mistake, you might possibly mis-step. Just like the rest of us.

    I believe it's already well past 10:00pm your time; I don't expect a response, whatever it may be, until tomorrow. Good night.
     
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