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Featured The Jehovah’s Witnesses Teach Jesus is Mighty God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 2, 2024.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    and this guy was a Reformed Baptist teacher! :eek:
     
    #21 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    any video for this?
     
    #22 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Ok, as someone else already explained, Gill and many reformers, held that Michael was a pre-incarnate appearance of the 2nd person within the Godhead. In the case of Michael, “Angel” meant messenger, not a created being.

    Other places in OT where this is thought to have occurred…. Anywhere God appeared as a man….

    1. The three “men” who met Abraham before the destruction of Sodom. One was God, the other two angels.

    2. The “man” Jacob wrestled near the water, refusing to let go until he was blessed.

    3. The “man” upon a horse who stated He was “Captain of the Lord’s hosts” that spoke to Joshua before he went into the promised land.

    The JW’s believe the created being Michael “an Angel” volunteered to redeem mankind because God was unable to do so. Because this created being was so faithful, God made him a “god”.

    This is NOT the same belief held by Gill and other reformers.

    peace to you
     
    #23 canadyjd, Feb 4, 2024
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    So exactly where in the Bible did they find that the pre Incarnate Jesus Christ was called Michael?
     
    #24 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Post #9, 37818 quoted Gill. The meaning of the name “Michael” is “like unto God” or words to that effect.

    There are only two “angels” that are named in scripture. Michael in the OT. Gabriel in the NT. Gabriel means “hero of God” or “God is my strength”

    I suppose the reformers who believed Michael was a pre-incarnation appearance of the 2nd person of the Godhead reasoned no created being could/or would have been given the name “like God”. Calling a created being “like God” could lead to confusion, Angel worship, polytheism and other issues.

    I’d have to do more research to be certain. I am certain they did not have the same beliefs as the JW’s about Michael.

    peace to you
     
    #25 canadyjd, Feb 4, 2024
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It was a common view at one time (like the Angel of the Lord being pre-incarnate Christ).

    It is somewhat problematic given that Michael is equated in a sense to Satan insofar as power, but it was not in the way JW's consider Michael to be Christ (Gill held an elevated view of Michael while the JW's demote Christ).
     
    #26 JonC, Feb 4, 2024
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  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    That is very well stated. Thanks

    peace to you
     
    #27 canadyjd, Feb 4, 2024
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    False theology!
     
    #28 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Even some of the Reformed theologians were teaching false stuff!
     
    #29 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
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  10. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Fast forward to the sermon
     
    #30 Marooncat79, Feb 4, 2024
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps.

    I guess we will all find out when we get to heaven

    peace to you
     
    #31 canadyjd, Feb 4, 2024
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    No need to wait for getting to heaven when the Infallible Word of God doesn't teach this :Geek
     
    #32 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear your Queen died, btw.

    peace to you
     
    #33 canadyjd, Feb 4, 2024
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Not my queen as she was not even ENGLISH!

    The present occupant of Buckingham Palace is a NATIONAL DISGRACE who is living in WHOREDOM
     
    #34 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'd say all of the Reformers were teaching false stuff insofar as their teachings were reactionary (to RCC doctrines they realized were unbiblical) and traditional (maintaining traditional RCC doctrines unrecognized in the background).

    But that doesn't mean their errors crossed the line into heresy (as JW doctrine does).

    It is one thing to say Michael was Christ pre-incarnate and another to deny the Trinity.
     
    #35 JonC, Feb 4, 2024
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Like it or not, Limited Atonement is a HUGE ERROR
     
    #36 SavedByGrace, Feb 4, 2024
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2024
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have no idea what limited atonement has to do with the teaching that Michael is a christophany.

    What exactly is the connection?

    I do not like or dislike the doctrine of limited atonement. I agree it is an error that has led some far from the gospel.

    But we need to be honest here. The doctrine of Limited Atonement is not connected to viewing Michael as a christophany and limited atonement, while unbiblical, is not a heresy (it is a doctrine within orthodox Christianity).
     
    #37 JonC, Feb 4, 2024
  18. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 43 says there is one God, and no God beside Him.

    JW’s don’t believe in an eternally existent Trinity of Persons in the Godhead, nor a Duality of Persons in the Godhead.

    They believe in two Gods—a Big God and a Little God. The Almighty God created their Mighty God—he is not eternally existent.

    Two Gods—not one.

    And their Holy Spirit is not a Person, but an impersonal “force”, like radar or some other thing they have imagined to compare God with.
     
    #38 MrW, Feb 4, 2024
  19. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    In JW belief, Christ is a created being, and NOT equal to Jehovah.
     
    #39 MrW, Feb 4, 2024
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hersey is UNBIBLICAL!
     
    #40 SavedByGrace, Feb 5, 2024
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