Featured The will of God

Interestingly enough, "will" in this verse is the Greek thelema, meaning will, wish or desire. However, in Luke 7:30, the word for will is boule--"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." So Man is able to reject God's will.

Boule is the word used for "counsel" in the KJV in Acts 2:23 and 4:28, the determined will of God. So does God always accomplish His thelema and/or boule? No. Yet in Heb. 6:17 the Bible talks about "immutability of his counsel (boule)." This is one of those mysteries about God that is not solvable by the puny intellect of men. "I am willing to let God have some mysteries" (Monroe Parker).

 

Because the word "will" can have multiple meanings depending on the usage.

 

Amen John.

NKJV Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

Ecclesiastes 8:17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.​

HankD

 

This is an exact example of how to destroy a passage and pervert the context.
Those not instructed in the confessions and catechisms....are susceptable to bad study habits and then follow DHKs bad ideas that are unscriptural.

I will answer in detail later on, but have to go to work soon....

both of you have butchered the context, DHK believes God will is not done...that would be no god at all.....i will explain more later on...

 

I wonder what it means when the will of God is a mystery to an individual in his or her life?

 

God's decretive will
Job 23:13, "But He is unique and who can turn Him? And what His soul desires, that He does."
Psalm 33:11, "The counsel of the Lord stands forever. The plans of His heart from generation to generation."
Isaiah 14:24, "The Lord of hosts has sworn saying, 'Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand.'"
Isaiah 46:10, "Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, 'Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure’".
Acts 17:24, "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands."

God's preceptive will
Rom. 12:2, "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."
Eph. 6:6, "not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.".
1 Thess. 4:3-6, "For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you."

 

People pray, "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
Yet we know that is not the case.
God's will is often not done, especially as it is done in heaven.
It is left undone, unfinished, neglected, and even rejected.

To look back in history and say whatever was done is God's sovereign will. His will has been accomplished because that is what has been done, is not true. It is pure fatalism, a major tenet of Islam. That is how Islam views the world. I cannot believe that Biblical Christianity and Islam would share the same view of God on this point. Do you really agree with them?

Was it God's will for a child rapist to do horrible things to children?
Was it God's will for so many abortions to take place each year?
Is rape God's will?
Was it God's will for terrorists to hijack planes and crash them into the WTC?

No, these were terrible crimes against humanity, against individuals, against God.

When a terrorist assassinated the leader of his nation, the nation was in shock. They mourned. It was an Islamic nation. Later, when a Muslim was asked "What do you think about this incident?" He simply replied, "It is Allah's will." Terrorism is Allah's will???
No, everything that happens is Allah's will. Fatalism is a major tenet of Islam. So it is in some of the Calvinistic paradigms that I am reading. We don't serve a fatalistic God, but that is what I am reading here.

 

Please ICON, Please, for all of us...create a new thread wherein I will exposit the plain meaning of what Peter is saying in his epistle wherein he directly explains God's eternal purpose vis a vis the flood....and you do so...side by side...and allow all people to decide who is exegeting the plain meaning of these glorious texts and who isn't. I have spent numerous hours studying, teaching and preaching them, and I promise you, the general thrust of what those passages mean is faithfully represented in my post.

My prediction: I will stick with those passages, and all passages directly relevant to them, and you will begin arguing from Scriptures not in any direct sense related to them at all.

Let us create a public thread, in which only you and I will respond. And we will demonstrate for all to see what Peter is teaching...DO NOT bite off more than you can chew.

 

His will for our lives is not a mystery He makes it very simple for us at an individual basis.

It's part of the O/P FAL started with:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication.​

While here in time some/many/most violate His will will RE: 1 Thessalonians 4:3.

In eternity all will obey, whether with Him or eternally separated from Him.

HankD​

 

I teach three classifications: (1) The moral will of God (most verses that use the phrase mean simply obeying God's revealed will for all, like 1 Thess. 4:3); (2) The personal will of God, which is God leading us one on one, like when He directed an apostle or disciple to a specific place, and (3) The sovereign will of God, which He accomplishes without reference to human will.

 

For starters.....this is what you agreed with DHK on.....
Originally Posted by HeirofSalvation
Exactly....DHK... except that I would not suggest that Adam had a "depraved" nature prior to the fall....

Yes it means exactly what it says ..."God was not "WILLING" that "ANY" should perish, but that "ALL" should come to repentance...

The bible does not say that....anywhere.....Can you post the verse that says that???? Satan....quoted half a verse to Jesus.

You say it means what it says...exactly...yet you cannot even quote the verse.
Have you read the verse??? you say you taught it:thumbsup:

DHK says I add to it...when in truth ..it is he who takes away from the verse.
His charge of fatalism is a denial of the true and living God ordaining all things...

 

Here:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I also posted the entire passage earlier:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1849256&postcount=20

I just did....again

 

Thanks John and it seems to me that number three is where the Systematic Theologies often go off into "left field".

HankD

 

Now you posted the verse...and I put what you originally posted...do you see the difference....

let me help you "see it"

What is the promise?

To whom is the promise given?

Is the letter addressed to anyone in particular?
Did you notice verse 3:1?

Did you notice the believers being addressed in contrast to the scoffers?

Then in contrast to the scoffers Peter focuses on the Beloved?

Did you see the long-suffering being spoken in reference to the words
to-usward, not willing that any perish?

Do you understand that it is the usward.....all of them...who will not perish?not any will perish

Not one elect sheep will perish...God is not willing that any of them perish,and indeed everyone will be saved....you went into Methusalehs name, correctly...when he dies it comes....He died when the last elect person was in the ark and God shut the door....God was very willing that the scoffers in thay day perished!:thumbs:

Maybe ...you did not notice the beloved elect who are in view, being addressed in the remainder of the chapter,because you were busy pulling the one verse out of context.....:thumbs:...here lets look:flower:

HOS if we read the whole chapter...we do not need to start a new thread as this is as they say.....CHECKMATE:wavey:

So lets obey Peters instruction to the beloved Elect who he wrote to:
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

Icon.....You pulled out only the word "us-ward" and you assumed...that it MUST mean that "us-ward" means the elect....and only the elect, that is totally unwarranted. but you have isolated that one word...And then freely felt the authority to start talking about sheep exclusively. Who in 1 Peter is threatened with perishing? The elect? Who needs to "come to repentance"? The elect?

Who is it that God is waiting on? It is the yet unrepentant (even these scoffers) for whom he delays....You cannot isolate the passage in 2 peter from the passage in 1 peter The one which DOES help modify what is being spoken of. which reads:1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

He was "waiting" in the days of Noah....NOT for Noah and his immediate family (they already served God, Icon...) Who was God waiting for?
Noah was a 2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; To whom was Noah preaching? Himself and his family, or to the unrepentant. Probably not his family, because God has already told Noah that he was to take his family with him. Gen 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. He waited in the days of Noah...because of longsuffering for the still unrepentant...not for Noah and his family who were in no need of repentance....Enoch was not preaching to Noah, Methuselah was not a warning to Noah...He was a warning to the non-repentant. Those who would actually PERISH.

Let the Apostle Peter, Icon, tell you to whom he is refering. not James White.

Your argument thus far consists of:
1.) assuming that "us-ward" means (my pre-determined) wherein at face value, it might just as easily mean (mankind as a whole) and then vs. 9 does indeed help to modify who God is waiting for:

"Not willing that any...but that ALL"

2.) Attempting to imply that God was "waiting" in the days of the flood for Noah. (whom God did not need to wait for)

You then proceed to quote vs. 11 on and I must assume intentionally skip vs. 10, where he changes topic from the flood...to the coming day of judgement...and tells us what he is trying to convince us to do what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in as you so kindly quoted in vs. 11 Nothing in the remaining portion of the chapter is speaking of anything salvific. Peter is NOW speaking of sanctification and perfection....in vs. 9...he was still speaking about salvation...again...refer to 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Refer to 1 PETER. When the FLOOD is mentioned....and it is still speaking of salvation to those who remain threatened with perishing...unlike the elect.

 

That happens because of an artificial meaning for the word "sovereign" that does not take into account common contemporary usage (a lexical necessity), and robs God of His free will by insisting that He must have hands on control of every minute occurance in His universe, which He created to be self-sustaining.

 

Thanks. I agree

HankD

 

Again, the determined aspect of His Will ALWAYS gets done,as he Himself ordains and direct causes it to occur!

That would involve things such as messiah coming, death/atonement, Christ resurrection, End times mew heavens/earth etc....

there is also the aspect of the Will of God being permissive, as he allows for things to happen that are NOT His perfect Will, as he would have them done, but permitted, as we are still in a fallen world/system/peoples, and once this earth systems are under his direct command when jesus returns...

than will be MUCH closer to his will being done on earth as in heaven, but even THAT will not happen until after Great Whitr throne Judgement, wrapping up all things, new heavens/earth forever more!