Featured Why Does Satan Blind Those Born Already Blind?

Interesting points.

 

Sure, and if I isolate 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 from the passages that show that God blinds men to the Gospel ( John 12:37-41, Romans 11:7-8 ) , it still does...but Scripture states it, so I believe it. I would also say that Satan's efforts are in addition to man's natural deadness, spiritually, towards God ( Please see Romans chapters 1-3, John 3:19-20 ). We also know that Satan is the believer's accuser, and that he hates God's children and his children hate us.

Personally, I don't call it, "Total Depravity", which is what traditional "Calvinists" have taught and what has been handed down through the centuries since the Synod of Dordt; I tend to call it, "Totally Stuck in Rebellion", which is the way God describes it.

It may seem redundant, but it actually works together with the biblical doctrine of reprobation...God hiding His face from those He does not wish to reveal Himself to ( Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22 ). Only Christ's sheep will believe ( John 10:26 ), and only those that have ears to "hear", will "hear" the Gospel:

" He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God."

Notice that only those that are "of God" will "hear" His words, spiritually. There's a reason that Jesus made this statement repeatedly throughout the Gospels:

" He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." ( Matthew 11:15 )


May God bless you.

 

So often Jesus words directed at his immediate disciples are misapplied to every believer. context is King!

 

The thing to keep in mind is that Satan does not direct cause them to get and stay lost, as that is still their own desire and will, he just comes along to complete the hardening process.

 

Agreed!

 

Mr. Mitchell,

In what way do you think I am misapplying Scriptures that should only be speaking with respect to His disciples? Do you believe that God's children differ in any way from Christ's disciples ( other than in the office of apostle that they were given, which was the privilege to actually see, worship and talk to the risen Christ )?

I do not.
All of God's children, Christ's sheep, are His disciples, in my estimation.



Let's compare a couple of passages, which teach the opposite of spiritual blinding:

" Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures," ( Luke 24:45 )

Here I plainly see that Christ opened His disciples' understanding, so that they might understand the Scriptures. That is what the verse states in no uncertain terms. So, in the analysis, until He opened their understanding, they were not able to discern the Scriptures ( the very words of God ) for themselves.

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. " ( Acts 16:14 )

Her "heart", the seat of spiritual understanding, was opened by the Lord, so that she would attend ( listen intently ) to those things ( the very words of God ) which Paul spoke....that is the way I understand it. So, with respect, He does it for more than just His disciples...He did it for Lydia, a Gentile who ended up believing on Him.



We also know that God gave Jesus' disciples the privilege of knowing the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but withheld those mysteries from the rest of the Jews that were following Jesus around in crowds:


" He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. " ( Matthew 13:11 )

This one clearly states that it was given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, and to the others it was not given.


" And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:" ( Mark 4:11 )

This says that it is given to the disciples to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, but to those that are without ( outside what? the body of Christ and/or outside the Kingdom of God ), all things are done in parables...that is what I see.


" And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." ( Luke 8:10 )

This one states an even further truth...it is given to the disciples to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, but to others in parables; with the reason being, so that seeing they might not "see", and hearing they might not understand.


You see no significance in any of this?


I suppose it's because you're just not making the same connections as I am.


I remember the first time I read Acts 16, and came across this passage telling of Lydia, and the fact that the Lord opened her understanding so that she attended ( listened intently ) to Paul's words, the words of God ( which is exactly the same thing that happened to me in when I believed on Christ )...It caused me to sit up and take notice of what was described:

That God opens the hearts of people for Him to "listen" to His word, but that He doesn't do it for everyone.


May God bless you sir.

 

In John 11, word comes to Jesus that Lazarus was very ill, even to the brink of death. What does He do, rush to Bethany to heal him? No, He tarries two days, thus Lazarus dies. He then goes there and raises him from the tomb after laying there for four days.

Now, you can't tell me that God was not active in hardening ppl's hearts and keeping them blinded. Here was a miracle none could deny. They knew Lazarus had been dead for four days. According to what I've read and heard, they believed their spirit would hover over their body for three days in hopes of re-entering it, but once the fourth day was there, the spirit would leave. So, the Jews there could not use that as an excuse, seeing Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead four days later.

Here was an undeniable miracle, and yet some went and told the Pharisees what He had done, and did they praise God for this marvelous miracle? No. Caiaphas prophesied that One should die for the nation that all might not perish.

God was very active in hardening their hears and keeping their eyes blinded. That's why they hated Him without cause. Ppl left in their fallen state hate God.

 

" What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day." ( Romans 11:7-8 )

" But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause." ( John 15:21-25 )

" And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." ( John 3:19-21 )


Who is the "light"?

" Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." ( John 8:12 )



I just thought I'd "punctuate it a bit" with Scripture, SG.

 

It is this kind of wording that makes it difficult to communicate: “…as that is still their own desire and will.” It is really a semantic discussion dependent on very important terms and ideas that seem very ill-defined or understood. For example, we cannot seem to agree on “will.” Corpses cannot have wills.

 

Perhaps there is incomplete awareness of people. Could there be some who realize they have a problem, just no clue how to solve it? A man born blind won’t easily describe what he’s never seen. This doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know he’s blind, nor that he doesn’t want to see. However, if everyone around him is also blind, he may not know of sight as more than mere myth, if that. But what if someone actually wanted to remain blind because of what sight might mean? This aspect of The Matrix trilogy was especially intriguing (and the outcry of disappointment at its conclusion).

 

Scripture indicates there is an all-important attitude toward truth. My question for all of us is, do we want to know the truth no matter what, and no matter what it is? If the answer is no at any point, then what’s the point of going further?

 

Nekros in Ephesians 2:1 means literally a dead corpse. That is what the lost unregenerate person is. He is alive physically but dead spiritually. The fallen man, who lives according to the flesh, can not please God. Why? Because He hates God, is hostile towards Him.

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.[Romans 8:5-8] Those who are according to the flesh are the lost, those who are spiritually dead. Those in this state have their minds set upon fleshly things. Their minds are hostile towards God, seeing they hate Him. And in this fallen state they can not please God. Those who have their minds according to the Spirit have life and peace, and they can please God.

 

To me, that is the essence of who we are as believers in Jesus Christ; We are in pursuit of the truth, and there is only one place to find it...in God's word:

" Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." ( John 17:17 )

Here is an example of the true believer's willingness to receive God's word, even though it may not make immediate sense. I won't show the entire passage, but it should ring true for those who see it:

" Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. " ( John 6:60-69 )


May God bless you all.

 

God is the One who starts and finished his salving work in us, as Romans 8 and Philippians 2:13 state to us, so we really ahve no part in our own salvation!

 

Exemplifying, "Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?"

 

IMO, God plays Satan and the spirits like a banjo string, this being one of many examples given:

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/did-satan-have-gods-permission.60240/#post-1464482

 

My point is that metaphor and analogy are just that, meaning they cannot rightly be taken woodenly at every point. But what happens is that in presenting arguments the corpse is given will and desire and all manner of animation when it suits, but cannot have anything of the sort when it doesn’t suit. This sort of flagrant inconsistency prevents clear and fair discussion. No sense flogging a dead horse.

 

I agree that is what we ideally should be, but it does not follow that we are indeed that way in every respect. We all have our embedded biases and blindspots. The worst thing is to claim we don’t have them. While God’s Word is truth, that does not make our interpretations or understandings right. This is something that you seem to be pointing out as well. That does not mean we will agree on everything. And when disagreement arises, it is possible that neither view is complete. While we await further illumination, we hold on to the one in whom is light.

 

Well then the word 'life' can be a metaphor as well. The words 'love', 'hate', 'wrath', &c can be metaphors, too. That way we can 'splain away the whole bible.