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The Cure for Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Ran the Man, Feb 26, 2019.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You may not have realized it, but that is exactly where you went when you "agreed in part" with the verse I presented. You simply do not have the right to a predjudiced opinion about the beliefs of another Christian.

    We can argue and discuss our views for a better understanding of each other, but if either argues the other does not truly hold their belief then that person is a liar by default (by character). That is why we need to be careful how we deal with Christians we may disagree with.
     
    #41 JonC, Feb 27, 2019
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My experience is some of the "old breed" Calvinists realize they may not be entirely correct. That is why so many appreciated Spurgeon. He readily acknowledged the human condition that affects us all. Their entire faith is not defined by their soteriology. John Piper is one of my favorite authors.

    My experience is the new ones are sometimes like cult members indoctrinated in a belief system. They believe it is their mission to defend Calvinism. I believe many of these are Calvinists because as a system it demands less of them than does Christ.
     
    #42 JonC, Feb 27, 2019
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I can definitely agree with that. A few weeks ago, one of the pastors in a large church one county over gave his congregation the riot act about Calvinism. The funny thing about it is I am pretty sure he is a Calvinist. He told the congregation in the AM service "If you talk about Calvin, election, or predestination more than you talk about Jesus; this is not the Church for you. Please go somewhere else."
     
    #43 Reynolds, Feb 27, 2019
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  4. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    At least he killed himself and 58 other people.
     
    #44 Ran the Man, Feb 27, 2019
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JonC,

     
    #45 Iconoclast, Feb 27, 2019
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  6. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    I have said from my introduction post that I am a Baptist. I have studied a lot of denominations, but I am a Baptist. That is the denomination I was raised in and am now fighting for.
     
    #46 Ran the Man, Feb 27, 2019
  7. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Who can understand it? Calvinism is so complex, there's your proof it's of man.
     
    #47 Ran the Man, Feb 27, 2019
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I am a member of and attend a SBC Church. Was raised SBC. I am a Christian. My goal is to spread the gospel. I will fight over primary doctrinal issues, but I choose to not fight over secondary and tertiary doctrinal issues.
     
    #48 Reynolds, Feb 27, 2019
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  9. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    The Calvinists are taking over our denomination. They won't be so merciful when it comes time to witch hunt and pick out so called secondary points with you.
     
    #49 Ran the Man, Feb 27, 2019
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I quit caring about "our denomination" when they decided to go on an extended apology tour for our past and started this social gospel nonsense. For the most part, the Cals oppose both. Honestly, the Cals taking over would probably be an improvement. I like the older, mature Calvinists such as John MacArthur. It's these young annoying ones that are a burr in my saddle.
     
    #50 Reynolds, Feb 27, 2019
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I’ve got a Fitbit watch that teaches you to control breathing:Rolleyes
     
    #51 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 28, 2019
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  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Wow... Baptist are a denomination!
     
    #52 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 28, 2019
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Oh OK.... so now we are talking about Southern Baptists specifically. I don’t think Mac is a SBC member but I could be wrong.

    This Ran The Man guy is classified Calvinists as an enemy to Baptists.... particularly SBC churches. Got news for you pal, Calvinists have been there from the start. So suck it up butter cup, maybe even have meaningful dialog with some of them, you might learn something.
     
    #53 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 28, 2019
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  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    That’s pretty arrogant of you Jon! So you are saying Calvinists are not Christians, but rather cults ?!? Really?

    So how would you categorize Dr Moeller?
     
    #54 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 28, 2019
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  15. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    John MacArthur makes 500,000US a year and dresses like a CEO. I could care less what he has to say about spirituality.
     
    #55 Ran the Man, Feb 28, 2019
  16. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Buttercup? No that would be your wife, I think.
     
    #56 Ran the Man, Feb 28, 2019
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Prove it
     
    #57 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 28, 2019
  18. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Its well known. You disprove it.
     
    #58 Ran the Man, Feb 28, 2019
  19. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    #59 Ran the Man, Feb 28, 2019
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not at all. I am saying some Calvinists hold their Calvinism as cultists cling to their false doctrines.

    When I was a Calvinist I was also a Christian. My Christianity did not change when my theological understanding changed.

    But for some, all they seem to have is Calvinism. If they are wrong about their soteriology they are empty handed.

    The difference is where people stand (whether Calvinism, Arminianism, or any other such theological view). Are they leaning on their understanding or are they standing "in Christ".

    It is sad but "on that day" many are going to be surprised to hear the words "I never knew you". It is not knowing about Christ or holding a paticular soteriological view that matters. It is knowing Christ and Christ knowing us.
     
    #60 JonC, Feb 28, 2019
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