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Featured The P in T.U.L.I.P

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jun 15, 2020.

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  1. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Not "MUST" but "WILL" ...

    • [Philippians 1:6 NASB] 6 [For I am] confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
    • [Ephesians 2:10 NASB] 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
    • [John 6:44 NASB] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
    • [John 10:26-29 NASB] 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand.
     
    #101 atpollard, Jun 22, 2020
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is how you understand it. In any case good works are the purpose and a result of being saved, Ephesians 2:10, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
     
    #102 37818, Jun 22, 2020
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Soloman was not sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption. This only happens in the church age .
     
    #103 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
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  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    John 6.44 simply says ( to those before the cross and the giving of the Holy Spirit) that they can come . notice the ' can come ' . it says nothing about there choice to come or not .
     
    #104 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    The sheep are simply the ones hearing from the Father before the arrival of Jesus . Actually after the cross believers are more than just ' in ' Gods hand ( of course those that believe you can lose salvation will say the verse says nothing about about a person ' jumping out of his hand ) After the cross , believers are his hand ( being in His body ..being in Him .
     
    #105 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any verses after the cross on eternal security. ( I do believe in Eternal security, but not based on ' election ' ).
     
    #106 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    What does that mean to you? "Sealed by the Holy Spirit". What all do you read into 'sealed by the Holy Spirit'?

    Does it somehow excuse Solomon's idolatry in his old age?
     
    #107 kyredneck, Jun 22, 2020
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Well John
    Ephesians 1
    13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
     
    #108 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Being sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption means just that . After you believe the Gospel we are sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption. This means that we cannot be lost .
     
    #109 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But in the OT they could have the Holy Spirit depart as it did with Saul . And it's why David prayed not to have the Holy Spirit taken from him . The Holy spirit did not ' indwell ' believers in the OT . This only happens in the NT
     
    #110 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So in Barry Johnson's theology there was no eternal security for the OT believer.
     
    #111 kyredneck, Jun 22, 2020
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Calvinist claim God desires to save some people by compulsion is pure fiction with no support anywhere in scripture.
    The fact God chooses for salvation through faith in the truth is obvious from 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    Calvinism's TULI are bogus and destructive.
     
    #112 Van, Jun 22, 2020
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This may be why that did not just stick with once saved, always saved, but instead, they muddy the water.
     
    #113 Van, Jun 22, 2020
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #114 37818, Jun 22, 2020
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Do you have some verses to show that an old testament saint had eternal security?
     
    #115 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Lordship salvation is false, Matthew 7:21-23. It is our Lord Jesus being our Christ, 1 John 5:1, so we are born of God.

    Now Jesus is Lord of both the saved and the perishing, Romans 14:11. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11. Romans 8:34.
     
    #116 37818, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    All the 5 points are destructive. the P is not eternal security..
     
    #117 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
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  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Why cant you just trust that because you trusted and believed the Gospel now you are sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption. Meaning you don't have to endure to the end to be saved . Especially as enduring to the end is a works gospel . When Jesus says " endure to the end " it's not talking about from when we get saved till we die . It's about those during the tribulation and its about physical death most likely. Either way it's for those ( future) during the trib .
     
    #118 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Essentially it means God will make sure the ' elect ' ( calvernist version of the frozen chosen) will endure till the end to final salvation. The only way to know ( guess ) that your one of the awakened frozen chosen is through your perseverance till the end . If your not persevering or have persevered till the end you must have been a non elect all a long .
    This is bondage and it's no better than ' works for salvation.
     
    #119 Barry Johnson, Jun 22, 2020
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    To place a caveat of “before the cross and the giving of the Holy Spirit” as nullifying scripture, requires us to discard everything in the OT and Gospels and as not being applicable to the Church and Christians. I cannot accept that premise.

    You also missed the point of John 6:44 as it related to your question.

    [John 6:44 NASB] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”

    When Jesus said “and I will raise him up”, who is the HE that Jesus was speaking of?
    When Jesus said “and I will raise him up”, did the word WILL mean WILL or MIGHT?
    Where in that promise from the lips of God Incarnate is the word IF or WORK?
     
    #120 atpollard, Jun 22, 2020
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