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Featured OT Saints were Unregenerate yet sought God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Feb 9, 2022.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Yes, the Holy Spirit places individuals spiritually into Christ.
    2) Yes, the Holy Spirit's "operation" is present in the Genesis creation.
    3) Yes, Abel's offering was more pleasing to God. I am not aware of the verse that says the the HS inspired Abel to choose the more pleasing offering.
    4) Yes, Peter was inspired with the knowledge Jesus was the Christ.
    5) None of the above says the OT Saints had been made perfect, which occurs after a person is spiritually placed in Christ. (1 Peter 5:10)
    6) The OT Saints who were inspired by the Holy Spirit were not first regenerated. If they had been been regenerated they would have gone to heaven when they died, but they did not.
    7) Yes, man does not contribute to regeneration, it is accomplished by God.
    8) No, I am not referring to National Israel, but to those who gained approval on the basis of faith. (Hebrews 11:2)
     
    #81 Van, Mar 12, 2022
  2. timdabap

    timdabap Member

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    almost church time where I'm at so will come back later....will just leave this here FWIW: an unregenerate is dead in sins and trespasses...no life, not even spiritually dead....just.... dead...the dead cannot perform any kind of action on their own...life must precede any action they make...therefore it is an oxymoron to say dead but seeking God...
    in case any is wondering, we (my wife and I) have fully retired and gone back to our country of birth, "free" Philippines, democratic, God-fearing Philippines (another oxymoron).
    Ciao.
     
    #82 timdabap, Mar 12, 2022
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What is an oxymoron is the claim people cannot seek God because they are "dead" in their sins and trespasses. Here Calvinism redefines the meaning of the word translated as "dead" to mean with total spiritual inability. Total fiction.

    Were the people of Matthew 23:13 "dead" yet in the process of entering the Kingdom? Yes!!
     
    #83 Van, Mar 13, 2022
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
    ~ Matthew 23:13

    Van, are you stating that humans have the power to stop God from accomplishing His will, based upon Matthew 23:13? How are you interpreting this verse?
     
    #84 AustinC, Mar 13, 2022
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    How many times have Calvinist asked this question? Dozens! The problem is they are claiming their view of God's will is correct, thus disagreeing with their view is claimed to be stopping God's will. I kid you not.

    And here is an uncorrupted translation:
    Mat 23:13 (NASB) “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven in front of people; for you do not enter it yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

    Folks, compare the ESV corruption at Matthew 23:13 and their rendering of Luke 11:52. Same word in same grammatical form, yet translated differently. "Would enter" leaves the wiggle room of "they would if they could but they could not" to make room for the bogus Calvinist view.
     
    #85 Van, Mar 14, 2022
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You didn't answer my question, Van.

    "Van, are you stating that humans have the power to stop God from accomplishing His will, based upon Matthew 23:13?"

    Matthew 23:13
    “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.
     
    #86 AustinC, Mar 14, 2022
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes I did. Here we have the disgusting ploy of the endless questions, never acknowledging the answer provided. Pay no attention to these who pervert truth.

    The problem is they are claiming their view of God's will is correct, thus disagreeing with their view is claimed to be stopping God's will. I kid you not.​
     
    #87 Van, Mar 15, 2022
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