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Featured Choose ye this day whom ye will serve

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Guido, Mar 25, 2022.

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  1. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 22:14

    God, through Joshua, commanded the Israelites to choose.

    Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

    2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

    3Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

    4And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

    5But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

    6And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

    7Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

    8And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.

    9And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.

    10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

    11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    12Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

    13But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

    14And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still.

    15And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.

    16Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

    17Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

    18Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

    19And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

    20For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

    21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

    22Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

    23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

    24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

    25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

    26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

    27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

    28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

    29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    32And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

    33So Paul departed from among them.

    34Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.


    God, through Peter, preached that he commanded "all men everywhere to repent."

    From these two passages, we see not only that man has the capacity to choose, but also that God wants everyone, everywhere, to believe in the true God. I mean, from the second passage, how can it not be more clear that God's desire is for everyone to seek him, and that he is not far from every single person on this planet.

    There is no excuse. Calvinism is false. When a person looks at creation, he sees God's fingerprints. There is no excuse. When they seek him, they find him. God did not pass over those in foreign countries, having determined they should not hear the gospel. He wants everyone to come to Christ and be saved.

    What kind of programmer would write a computer program that cannot print a document, and then waste his time clicking the print option for countless hours, until finally, he throws his program into the recycle bin, and leaves it there forever? O Calvinists, that is the similitude of your god!
     
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  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Curious, where do you get your understanding of Calvinism?
     
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  3. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    Please explain TULIP to me, in short, in a reply, so that my understanding of Calvinism can be perfect, according to your standards. Then, I will know how not to make strawmen.
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The spiritually dead natural man cant choose spiritual things, in fact such Spiritual things are foolishness to him and he cant know/understand them 1 Cor 2:14

    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
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  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    It's not something you can quickly bullet point and understand. You need to study it. I've given you a good STARTING point.

    Total Depravity | Ligonier Ministries
    Unconditional Election | Ligonier Ministries
    Limited Atonement | Ligonier Ministries
    Irresistible Grace | Ligonier Ministries
    Perseverance of the Saints | Ligonier Ministries
     
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Take the next 15 years. Go and read your Bible, observing what God says from Genesis to Revelation. Come to truly observe and see the whole, then come back. At present, you are ignorant. You think an acronym is what makes a person reformed. Such thinking is pure ignorance on your part.
    It is highly doubtful that any reformed believer here has gone outside of scripture to form their understanding of God's saving work. They read God's word and became convinced of God's Supremacy over all His Creation, noting that all things, including our will, are subject to God as King of Kings.
    Read your Bible. See if God is Supreme or if men can thwart His plans.
     
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  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    guido

    Yes, Josh did tell them to choose, however look at the choices. The True God wasn't an option, it was to choose between the gods of their fathers served on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the amorites, both were idolatry. All the natural man can choose is an idol because he hates the True God and isnt subject to Him.
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The choice was whether the nation would commit themselves to the covenant, which was comprised of moral, ceremonial and civic laws that God gave to them at Mt Sinai. The choice was not regarding eternal salvation. Therefore anyone attempting to make the choice at the end of Joshua a choice regarding eternal salvation is simply doing a terrible job of understanding God's word. Note that the Sinai covenant is a temporary covenant God had with a nation. It revealed their sin. It did not save them. This is why Joshua tells the people that they will utterly fail. One cannot please God by human effort.
     
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  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Egad, those words were not for Egyptians, or Canaanites, or Babylonians, or Greeks, or Barbarians, etc., the words were for God's people, Israel.
     
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  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Amen Amen and AMEN!
     
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  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Well if you want to see the result of calvinism on man just read more of Austins posts. The way he answers just points out the arrogance that calvinism breeds.

    Humble is not a word I would use to describe most of the calvinists on the net.
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Did you miss the first part of the sentence "And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD," The options were serve God or choose which of these other gods you want to serve.
     
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  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Funny your not in the picture SG, don't you consider yourself a typical calvinist?
     
  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    *You're

    Not your
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I saw that, but it wasnt an option given to them.
     
  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    That is clear English. If you do not want to serve God then these are the options. How can you miss that?
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you not recognize the choice has nothing to do with eternal salvation?

    The choice is whether to continue in the Sinai Covenant with God or not to continue.
    After Israel says they choose the covenant, Joshua tells them that they will utterly fail in their end of the covenant.
    Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with eternal salvation. Eternal salvation is, and has ways been, by God's grace through the gift of faith.

    Do you disagree with this? Do you imagine something else?
     
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  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It is clear english, yet you dont seem to understand it.
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    read the rest of the thread before you jump in. As for your gift of faith then your saying that God condemns millions, no billions to hell because He did not give them the gift of faith. You really do work hard at destroying the character of God don't you.
     
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