Featured All that the Father gives Me

Understanding the biblical concept of the phrase “all that the Father gives Me” requires careful study of several passages of scripture. First lets look at John 6.

In verse 37, Jesus says (NASB) “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.” This verse says if a person is given to Christ, it results in salvation 100% of the time; all given come and are not cast out. Second, the sequence seems clear, first if God gives someone they either simultaneously come to Christ or after they are given, they come to Christ, but clearly folks do not come to Christ before they are given.

In verse 44, Jesus says (NASB) “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws Him; and I will raise Him up on the last day.” This verse says two things, no one can come to Jesus unless God draws him, and everyone that comes to Jesus in this manner is saved, for Jesus will raise him up on the last day.

Putting the two verses together, we get (1) God draws people, (2) some or all those drawn are given to Christ, (3) all those given in this manner come to Jesus, and (4) everyone that comes to Jesus in this manner is saved forever.

In verse 45, Jesus says (NASB) “It is written in the prophets, “And they shall all be taught of God.” Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.”
So everyone who comes to Jesus must first have heard from the Father, which I think refers to hearing the gospel message. Then, everyone that comes to Jesus must have learned from God’s message. I think this learning refers to accepting and trusting in Christ.

Putting all three verses from John 6 together we get, (1) God draws people with the gospel message, (2) some of these hear (understand) the message and believe (having learned), (3) God gives those whose faith He credits as righteousness to Christ, (4) all those God gives in this matter are spiritually placed in Christ (arrive in Christ), and (5) everyone that comes to Jesus in this manner is saved forever.

So based on these verses from John 6 we have a working hypothesis of the meaning of the phrase, “all that the Father gives to Me.”

In verse 65, Jesus says (NASB) “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to me, unless it has been granted Him from the Father.” If God has hardened the hearts of some, they will not understand the gospel and they will be unable to learn from it, is how I understand the verse - using “granted” to mean allowed. If God hardens a person’s heart, like Judas in this passage, then it has not been granted to come to Jesus. Judas certainly heard the message but just as certainly did not learn from it and put his faith in Christ. So it appears to me that this verse is consistent with my working hypothesis.

In John 12:32, Jesus says (NASB) “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” Christ crucified is the center of the gospel message, so this is somewhat consistent with the working hypothesis. However, to fit, I must understand “all men” to refer to all men who have heard and understood the gospel, because the message of Christ being “lifted up” would not it seems to me to draw folks who either did not hear or understand the gospel. In Matthew 13, the parable of the four soils, Jesus explains that some people have hardened themselves, rather than being hardened by God for His purpose such as Judas or Pharaoh, and it appears to me that those who have hardened their heart to the degree they cannot understand the gospel, will not be drawn by the gospel, Matt. 13:19. Clearly my understanding requires a difference between being drawn to Jesus (John 12:32) and coming to Jesus (John 6:37; 44 and 45).

In order to accept this view as consistent with all scripture, one must accept that to be drawn means understanding a persuasive argument and accepting it to some degree, although not necessarily making a full commitment, i.e. the other soils of Matthew 13. Matthew 13 clearly indicated folks could be attracted to the gospel, i.e. receive it with joy, and yet not believe from the heart or with all their heart.

In John 10:29 (NASB) Jesus says, “My Father who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.” First, the “them” refers back to verse 28 and to the ones Christ gives eternal life. In verse 28 Jesus says no one can snatch them out of His (Christ’s) hand and in verse 29 Jesus says no one can snatch them out of His Father’s hand. Thus when we are spiritually placed in Christ, we are in both the Father’s and the Son’s hand, saved forever. To make this clear, Jesus says, (verse 30) “I and My Father are one.” This verse, too, is consistent with the working hypothesis.

In John 17:4 we see that God gives other things to Christ, in this case His work to accomplish, and so we need to look at context to verify that people are being given to Christ for the purpose of their salvation, as opposed to something or someone being given to Christ for some other purpose.

In John 17:6 we see that the Father has given some individuals to Christ, but the purpose was for them to receive the words God had given to Christ (verse 8). We see that these men were given to Christ out of the world, so out of the “kosmos of man” God gave these to Christ for a purpose. These men believed God had sent Jesus, that Jesus was the Messiah.

In verses 9 – 12 we see that Jesus asks in behalf of these men, His disciples, for God to keep them in His name, indicating they were believers and Jesus is asking God to protect their faith, sanctify them in truth so to speak. Jesus says not one of them perished, but the son of Perdition, again indicating these were not given for the purpose of salvation. Jesus then says, verse 20, that He is not asking in behalf of the disciples only, but also for those who will believe in Christ through the message Christ gave them from God.

In John 17:24 (NASB) Jesus says, "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.” This also refers to Christ’s disciples given to Christ for the purpose of passing on the gospel to the world. To be with Me, again refers to being with Christ as a faithful servant, rather than apart from Christ spreading less than the pure gospel.

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If we back up a bit and return to verse 17:6, we see that in these verses, the Father is giving to the Son people who belong to the Father. This begs the question, in what way did the disciples belong to the Father before they were given to the Son. All but Judas were “of God” meaning under the influence of God, looking for the Messiah, trusting in God’s word (Old Testament revelation). From this I conclude Jesus is referring to the eleven, Jesus was not praying in behalf of Judas, and therefore Jesus is saying they belonged to God because they believed in God and were committed to following God as best they knew how.

1 John 5:1 says (NASB), “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. Based on the Greek tenses, this verse says that everyone who believes in the present has been born of God in the past. It is God who determines whether or not a person “believes” by crediting their faith as righteousness, or not (Romans 4:5). John 1:12-13 says whoever believes in Christ is given by God the right to become children of God, born by the will of God. So if we put those three verses together we get (3) God gives 100% of those whose faith He credits as righteous to Christ, and (5) everyone that arrives in Christ in this manner is then born anew by the will of God and saved forever

In John 3:3 scripture teaches we must have been born again to see the kingdom of God. In John 3:5 scripture teaches we must be born of the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.

In summary, I have found no passage of scripture that conflicts with this understanding of John 6:37 - (1) God draws people with the gospel message, (2) some of these hear (understand) the message and believe (having learned), (3) God gives those whose faith He credits as righteousness to Christ, (4) all those God gives in this matter are spiritually placed in Christ (arrive in Christ), and (5) everyone that comes to Jesus in this manner is saved forever.

Steps 2 and 3 comprise our individual election unto salvation, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, which says “… God has chosen you from the beginning [of the New Covenant] for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the Truth. And it was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” When God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness (Romans 4:5) He then gives us to Christ by spiritually placing us within Christ, thus “all that the Father gives Me” are saved forever.

Therefore when you see the concept of "coming to Jesus" you must consider whether the idea is a person putting their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, or God transferring the person from the realm of darkness (in Adam) spiritually into Christ's spiritual body. If the result is they will not be "cast out" clearly the redeeming spiritual transfer is in view.

 

What passage or verse are you referring to?

 

I will not address your "question" as you cannot cite the statement.

 

Thanks for agreeing with the OP. God saves those He elects to save! His effort to "win some" demonstrates future election.

 

Here the false claim is made that God gave everyone that will be saved to Christ before creation is made.

Does having the desire that all given to Christ will have eternal life say everyone has already been given? That is the claim and obviously is false.

John 10:29 refers to those individuals already given to Christ, so non-germane.

John 6:40 means those who see and believes will have eternal life. They are chosen after they believe.

Lastly John 10:26 is misrepresented. Here is the NKJV: “But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you." The idea of people being "of" My sheep refers to people open to God's word who may respond to the gospel. They are the people who make up the fields white for harvest.

God utilizes our faith in the truth to make His choice of us for salvation. (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
Drawing refers to being attracted by God's loving kindness, not compulsion.
From the beginning refers to the period since creation, and not before creation.

 

Yet another nothing burger.

 

Personal incredulity is argument according to fallacy.

Initial question: In this choosing as to understand this, upon whom does responsibility for one's perishing fall?

Quote from OP: Therefore when you see the concept of "coming to Jesus" you must consider whether the idea is a person putting their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, or God transferring the person from the realm of darkness (in Adam) spiritually into Christ's spiritual body. If the result is they will not be "cast out" clearly the redeeming spiritual transfer is in view.

Initial response: What passage or verse are you referring to?

Then: It was to your ". . . or . . ." in your paragraph.

And folks, there you have it. Post after post of off topic nonsense

The "OR" refers to two interpretations of the idea of "coming to Jesus" and has nothing whatsoever to do with who is responsible for an individual perishing.

 

Good Grief, either view is valid according to the context of the verse. The person studying the verse must consider the context to determine which concept is in view.

For John 6:37 the concept is being transferred into Christ's spiritual body!!!!!

 

Lets consider three verses from Matthew:

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Leave the children alone, and do not forbid them to come to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

In each of these verses, the entity doing the action, i.e. coming to Jesus, is the human. So transfer into Christ's spiritual body is not in view.

In Matthew 16:24, the idea is the person putting their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, thus adhering to His commands.

In Matthew 19:14, the idea is simply the physical movement of children to come near to Jesus, with perhaps a slight implication of seeking Jesus as the Messiah.

In Matthew 19:21, the idea is putting complete faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, which the person was unwilling to do.

 

Another related concept:

John 7:37-39 (NASB)
Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.“The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, "From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.​

Come to Me and drink, expands the concept of considering Jesus as Lord and Savior, to drinking or embracing Jesus fully as Lord and Savior. And just as clearly the passage does not refer to being transferred spiritually into Christ and being sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. The spiritual transfer only occurs after Jesus died on the cross.