Walter Martin points out that the Adventist denomination is not a cult. Continued

The SDA refuses to condemn abortion. In fact, your SDA website makes it clear that it is a women's right to choose. The Catholic Church has condemned abortion. Any person who claims to be Catholic and supports abortion is excommunicated and no longer Catholic. Judges, politicians, etc. You can continue to call the judges that sat on the bench Catholic but the Church makes it clear they are not speaking for the Catholic Church.

Every single human being has unsurpassable worth and unsurpassable value. Is that the message that Adventists send to the world when they choose to perform abortions in Adventist institutions? Are they saying that that human being has unsurpassable worth, unsurpassable value, and that they love this human being more than they love themselves? Is that the message that the SDA is sending to the world on it's official website? 'The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation'. Is the SDA being Jesus to the world by being in the abortion business? Are you expressing his love, his unfathomable love for every being? Is the SDA sending the message that this being has unsurpassable worth and unsurpassable value? Because that's what Jesus was proclaiming when he hung up on the cross that he loved every single human being and that every single human being has unsurpassable worth and unsurpassable value. Yep, the SDA falls into the 'cult' category by it's position on abortion alone.

 

I gave you those scriptures, but here is a few more. Look again, please:

Daniel 7:9-10,22,25, 8:13,14,26, 9:24-27, 11:31-35,40, 12:7-13; Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:23-32 [1 Corinthians 5:8 KJB, antitype, not type]; Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6; Ezra 6:14, 7:7-28; Revelation 5:6, 9:13-15, 10:1-11, 11:1-3, 12:6,14, 13:5 KJB, etc.

Daniel 7:1-16; --- Daniel and symbols of Vision

Daniel 7:17-18; --- Gabriel and summarized explanation of Vision​

Daniel 7:19-22; --- Daniel and sumbols of Visions, again

Daniel 7:23-28; --- Gabriel and more detailed explanation of Vision
​

Daniel 7:1-16

Daniel 7:1-3, --- Sea 4 beasts [overview],
Daniel 7:4, --- 1st Beast - the Lion - Babylon --- 605 BC to 538 BC
Daniel 7:5, --- 2nd Beast - the Bear - Medo-Persia --- 538/539 BC to 331 BC
Daniel 7:6, --- 3rd Beast - the Leopard - Greece [and divisions thereof] --- 331 BC to 168 BC
Daniel 7:7a, --- 4th Beast - the dreadul terrible [Dragon] - Pagan Rome --- 168 BC to AD 476
Daniel 7:7b, --- 4th Beast with 10 horns - the dreadful terrible [Dragon] divided - Pagn Rome divided --- AD 476 on
Daniel 7:8, --- 4th Beast with 10 horns, now with a new 11th [after wars uprooting 3 others, the 8th] horn - the new phase of Rome, Papal Rome [mouth speaking blasphemies, human eyes, little earthly kingdom, but large spiritual kingsom, etc] --- AD 508, 538 unto AD 1798 [received deadly wound, lost state powers, but remained a church]
Daniel 7:9-10, --- Transition to Heavenly setting sometime after AD 1798, Judgment goes forward, books of record opened in Heaven [this takes place in AD 1844, as per Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:13-15 KJB, as cited aboveetc]
Daniel 7:11a, --- Transition back to earth, sometime after AD 1798, the Beast and little horn still active
Daniel 7:11b, --- the Beast at some point in future destroyed, along with the body, and also the horn
Daniel 7:12, --- The other beasts dominion was taken away, they had no power to rule on earth, this is during the 1,000 years, when the people of those nations are dead, for this season and time, to awaken after the 1,000 years to receive their final reward.
Daniel 7:13, --- Son of man, Jesus, comes to the Ancient of Days, the Father, in Heaven, with the angels, Jesus not only began the Day of Atonement in AD 1844, and has since been in this ministry in Heaven in the Most Holy Place [which is where he came to at that date, see Revelation 3:7-8, 9:13-15 KJB]
Daniel 7:14, --- Jesus takes off His Highpriestly garments, takes up His kingly garments [Revelation 1:1-20; Revelation 19:11-16 KJB]
​

Please notice the Chronological order, and the locations of events. The Judgment that goes forward in Daniel 7:9-10, is AFTER AD 1798, and BEFORE the second coming of Jesus. We know this further from Daniel 7:19-22, which repeats these events and timeframes.

Daniel 7:19a, --- mentions all three other beasts, thus Babyloin, Medo-Persia and Greece -- 605 BC to 168 BC
Daniel 7:19a, --- focuses on the 4th Beast - Pagan Rome, --- 168 BC to AD 476
Daniel 7:20a, --- focuses again on the 10 horns on the 4th Beast, Pagan Rome divided, --- AD 476
Daniel 7:20b, --- focuses again on the 11th, or little horn [which becomes the 8th, after uprooting 3 previous horns] and this is the Papal Rome, AD 508, 538 unto AD 1798 [see Daniel 7:25, 12:7,11-13 KJB]
Daniel 7:21, --- the little horns wars and persecutions for 1,260 days/years [Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5 KJB]
Daniel 7:22a, --- "until", is the 1,260 timeframe, AD 538 unto AD 1798
Daniel 7:22b, --- "the Ancient of Days came", is the transition from the Holy Place [Revelation 4:1-5,5:6 KJB] unto the Most Holy Place [Revelation 3:7-8, 9:13-15 KJB], at the end of the 2,300 and 1,335, being 45 more years after the ending of the 1,260 and 1,290 in Daniel 12:12 KJB.
Daniel 7:22c, --- "and judgment was given unto the saints of the most High", is after the second coming of Jesus, during the 1,000 years in Heaven, see Revelation 20:4; 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 KJB
Daniel 7:22d, --- "and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom", is after the 1,000 years, they inherit the New Heavens and Earth after all the destruction of the wicked, see Revelation 20-22 KJB.
​

Please notice again the Chronological order, and the locations of events. The Judgment that goes forward in Daniel 7:22b, is AFTER all 3 beasts, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, after the Pagan Roman phase, and during the Papal phase, being after the Papal persecutions, the "unitl" AD 1798, and BEFORE the second coming of Jesus. This again synchronizes with Revelation 14:6-7 KJB, that the Judgment is taking place while the Everlasting Gospel is still being effective, before the close of propbation, when the Mystery of God would be finished, and before the Second coming, because this Judgment takes place before the Wrath of God, the 7 last plagues are poured out, and takes place during the test which comes upon all the world, Revelation 3:10, 17:12 KJB.​

 

EW claimed that the Sda was the restored true remnant church, as she interpreted Prophecy wrongly, do you deny her?

 

Much of the problem here is that the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation have YET to occur, have never happened yet, so the time after ancient Rome was not as EW defined it as being, as there is yet a final Antichrist still to come,and there is a coming world order yet to come, as Middle Ages were not in the prophecies!

 

You are still trying to live under the Old Covenant, to get right and remain right with God by Keeping law, and Paul tells us those who try to do such a thing have now fallen from Grace, as grace alone saves, keeps, and matures us, as outworked by faith!

 

As shown from Daniel 7, we can see the same in Daniel 8:

Daniel 8:13,14,26, 11:31,40, etc reveal this same pattern.

Daniel 8:1-14, --- Daniel and symbols of Vision

Daniel 8:15-27, --- Gabriel and explanation of Vision [in part, it was not completed, see vs 27, continue in Daniel 9:21-27 KJB]
​

Daniel 8:1-2, --- Introduction of Vision
Daniel 8:3, --- 1st [clean] Beast - Ram with two horns, one higher than other - Medo-Persia --- 538 BC to 331 BC
Daniel 8:4, -- conquests of 1st Beast - Ram, being 3 directions [just as 3 ribs in Bears mouth], conquering [1] Lydia [King Croesus], [2] Babylon [Belshazzar, etc] and finally [later through Cambyses II, aka, Ahasuerus of Ezra 4:6 KJB, son of Cyrus II the Great] [3] Egypt
Daniel 8:5, --- 2nd [clean] Beast - He-Goat with Notable Horn - Greece under Alexander III the Great --- 331 BC unto Alexander's death in 323 BC [in Babylon]
Daniel 8:6-8a, -- conquests of 2nd Beast - He-Goat, conquered from the western direction, conquering Medo-Persia, Egypt, Babylon, etc.
Daniel 8:8b, -- Alexander III the great dies, and the Diadochi wars take pleace, eventually whittled to 4 main - [1] Selecus [Nothern, Coele-Syria]/Antiohcus dynasty, [2] Ptolemy [Egypt] dynasty, [3] Cassander, [4] Lysimachus [and in Daniel 11, the parallel of Daniel 8, it eventually whittles to 2, the Northern and Southern powers], this is from 323 BC unto 168 BC, when Rome becomes the next power on the scene, as in Daniel 7, 168 BC.
Daniel 8:9, --- a new power, Pagan Rome, is on the scene from one of the four winds/directions, came from the West, and conquers in three directions, south [Egypt], east [Creece, Cole-Syria, etc] and the pleasant land [Judea, etc] 168 BC onward
Daniel 8:10, --- Pagan Rome persecutions up till the times of Constantine, AD 313, after the 10 day/years of Revelation 2:10 KJB, AD 303 to AD 313 [Diocletian, Galerius, etc].
Daniel 8:11, --- Papal Rome comes to focus, AD 508, 538, and it usurps by laws the prergatives of Jesus Christ, and now enforced by civil statutes of Justinian, Church/State combine with teeth
Daniel 8:12, --- Papal Rome enters into the 1,260 year period, [AD 538 unto AD 1798, the 1,290 from AD 508 unto AD 1798, the 1,335 from AD 508 unto AD 1843/44]
Daniel 8:13,14,26, --- The Sanctuary of Heaven to be cleansed, the anti-typical Day of Atonement has arrived, AD 1844, until today [thus the beasts of Ram, He-Goat, 8 horns of sanctuary, High priest [Jesus, the Prince of the Host], cleansed, covering cherub - Gabriel, etc ... see Leviticus 16 and 23]
​

The question, "How long the vision ...?" [concerning 'the daily'], etc.

The vision of Daniel 8 begins with Medo-Persia, so sometime in the reign of Medo-Persia we begin counting 2,300, until the sanctaury is cleasned, and it must cover from that start in Medo-Persia, through Greece, through Pagan Rome, through its persecutions, into Papal Rome, through its persecutions, and sometime after the Papal Rome loses its state powers, we find this Judgment and Cleansing of the Sanctuary go forward, which takes place before Jesus comes. We find the start of the 2,300 in Daniel 9:24-27; Ezra 6:14, 7:7-28, etc, and we find its ending [along with the 1,335] after the 70 weeks, after the 1,260, 1,290 [which are simply subsections of the 2,300] in Revelation 9:13-15 KJB. We see the explanation of the vision here:​

Daniel 8:20, --- Medo-Persia --- 538 BC to 331 BC
Daniel 8:21, --- Greece under Alexander III the Great --- 331 BC unto Alexander's death, 323 BC
Daniel 8:22, --- Greece divided, 323 BC unto 168 BC; four main [Seleucus, Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimachus dynasties]
Daniel 8:23a, --- Pagan Rome, --- AD 168 onwards, the king of fierce countenance [state power], see also Deuteornomy 28:48-57, and destruction of Jerusalem
Daniel 8:23b, --- Papal Rome, the king ... understanding dark sentences [parables, religion power], AD 508
Daniel 8:24a, --- Papal Rome was given power by Pagan Rome, the seat of the Emperor in the west, Rome, see Revelation 12 and 13:1-2 KJB.
Daniel 8:24b-25, --- Papal Rome persecutions through "peace" [false Gospel], the 1,260, etc AD 538 unto AD 1798
Daniel 8:26, --- the many days, are the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14 KJB, which begin in Medo-Persia [457 BC; Ezra 7, Daniel 9:25; Ezra 6:14], extending all the way down past Papal Rome persecutions, past AD 1798
Daniel 8:27, --- the vision not full explained, but in Daniel 9-12, the details of Daniel 8 are given again, in full unto their ending.
​

Daniel 8, follows the sanctuary pattern, leading from the daily service, unto the singular yearly service, the Day of Atonement. Jesus is following the pattern, Psalms 77:13 KJB, and fulfilling the feasts in the proper order and timing, all of this comes long after, Passover, Unelavened, Wavesheaf, Penetecost, and even after Trumpets.

2,300 greatest and longest time prophecy in scripture.

457 BC [begins the 2,300, the first portion being the 70 weeks; Daniel 9:25; Ezra 6:14, 7:7-28]
457 BC unto AD 27 [baptism of Jesus in water and Spirit, is 69 weeks]
AD 27 unto AD 31 [ministry of Jesus, confirming the covenant Himself for 3 1/2 years, midst of final week [70th week] Jesus dies]
AD 31 unto AD 34 [the disciples, Hebrews 2:3 KJB [Jesus confirms through the disciples], filled with the holy spirit, do the same things as Jesus, for 3 1/2 years, ending with the stoning of Stephen and rejection by the Sanhedrin, type and anty-type, pattern matches exactly, Jesus is seen standing, probation, 70 x 7 [490 years] is up [see Matthew 18:22 KJB]]
AD 34 unto AD 1844, fulfills the remaining 1810 years, from the 490, which equal 2,300.

Thus in Revelation 9:13-15, we see the Heavenly golden Altar, the 4 horns, as used in the Day of Atonement, combined with a spcfiic "hour", "day", "month" and "year":

Hour - Hour of His Judgment is come, Revelation 14:6-7; Daniel 7:22, etc.
Day - Day of Atonement, the 10th Day [22nd Gregorian Calendar], Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32 KJB
Month - 7th Month [Ethanim; 1 Kings 8:2 KJB] [October, Gregorian Claendar]; Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32 KJB
Year - AD 1844, end of the 2,300 and 1335 of Daniel 8:13,14,26, 12:12 KJB.
​

Even as Jesus fulfilled the Passover at a specific time:

Hour - Morning Sacrifice, Jesus Crucified, approx 9 AM, Evening Sacrifce Jesus dies, approx 3 PM
Day - 14th Day of the 1st Month [Bible Calendar], the preparation Day [the 6th day of the week, aka 'Friday']
Month - 1st Month, Abib; Leviticus 23:4-8 KJB
Year - AD 31, the middle of the 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27, exactly 3 1/2 years after AD 27 [baptism]
​

Jesus knew the "time" ...​

 

Middle Ages were not in the view of prophecy, as after First century, next main events in scripture were to be rise of Antichrist and return of Christ at end of days!

 

From what I read here our SDA friend sounds like a typical Bible reader making matters of kingdom entrance and position to mean eternal salvation ( which he thinks can be lost ). Forgiveness of sins usually tied to repentance in the NT is not the same as eternal salvation. I could probably spend hours on how he is mixing Israel and the church but not worth it. What exactly is the gospel message of the SDA? Maybe Bob will tell us.