Another look at Matthew 15:24

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 15, 2024.

  1. Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, this poster is continuing the effort to misrepresent obvious scripture.

    1) Did the Jews have an excuse for not believing the gospel? Nope See Romans 1:20

    2) Did Jesus (before His death) preach the gospel only to the Jews? Nope See Matthew 8:5 to 8:13, especially verses 11 and 12.

    3) Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of Christ? Nope See Matthew 24:14 which says:

    “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come." ​
    See also See also John 18:36 where "kingdom" is said to be in the heart of believers, rather than anywhere on earth.

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not from here.” ​
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Is that the definition of perfect love? If so, and I’m not certain it is his stance, then he has a distorted belief system more in tune with the Pharisees practice of legalism and the Puritan practice of Lordship Salvation. Both are a stink in the nostrils of Almighty God.
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You forgot the New Trump translation that is conveniently KJVO…:Laugh

    Now, does this mean we are now Jews or that we are grafted into the tribe? :Rolleyes
     
  4. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    You are an unreasonable religious man whose religion will not permit you to believe plain and simple words like I quoted to you from all 4 gospel writers who were eye witnesses to the record they wrote. You are being willfully ignorant by ignoring their testimony and acting like they did not say what was quoted.

    Then you say that the gospel of the kingdom of Heaven which they along with John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and all the chosen disciples had been preaching for over 3 years was the same as the gospel of the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, something that all 4 stated the disciples knew nothing about and did not believe even after Jesus died and rose from the dead. Do you think the 4 gospel writers were on something? They were on something if on the one hand they preached the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and on the other they did not know about it or even believe it after it happened.

    No, while the gospel of the kingdom is dependent on the gospel of Christ, one is physical and earthly, the othering Spiritual and heavenly. One has a guarantee of covenant promises to the earthly people of God, Israel, while the other, the church, has a guarantee of the promises of grace to the heavenly people of God. There is one kingdom with three parts. Israel, the nations, and the church. Three in one and one in three, a trinity, the image of God the creator.
     
  5. Van Well-Known Member
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    First this naysayer offers his opinion of me, which is less than generous.

    I addressed each and every germane testimony, a charge without evidence.

    1) Did the Jews have an excuse for not believing the gospel? Nope See Romans 1:20

    2) Did Jesus (before His death) preach the gospel only to the Jews? Nope See Matthew 8:5 to 8:13, especially verses 11 and 12.

    3) Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of Christ? Nope See Matthew 24:14 which says:

    “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."

    4) See also John 18:36 where "kingdom" is said to be in the heart of believers, rather than anywhere on earth.

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not from here.”​
     
  6. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Posting scripture references without substance and context is not sound Bible teaching. You have proved nothing. You are making statements concerning your own doctrines, which are not true, and you will not accept correction with easy to understand statements from the scriptures. I posted scriptures where Jesus and his disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom of heaven for 3 years and when they left Galilee for Jerusalem where Jesus would die and rise from the dead they confessed they did not know about it and Peter even resisted it and was strongly rebuked by the Lord Jesus. They understood the kingdom they were preaching would be physical and earthly. This is true but they did not yet see the full picture. You are ignoring these words because they do not fit your narrative.

    I am making this an issue with you because of your practice of changing words of scripture, thus changing meaning.

    I think I am finished with this.
     
  7. Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "you, you, you post. I addressed each and every germane testimony, a charge without evidence.
    Here again is the truth from scripture:


    1) Did the Jews have an excuse for not believing the gospel? Nope See Romans 1:20

    2) Did Jesus (before His death) preach the gospel only to the Jews? Nope See Matthew 8:5 to 8:13, especially verses 11 and 12.

    3) Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of Christ? Nope See Matthew 24:14 which says:

    “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come." ​

    4) See also John 18:36 where "kingdom" is said to be in the heart of believers, rather than anywhere on earth.

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not from here.”​
     
  8. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    This is a prevarication. That is not my efforts here.

    The epistle to the Romans was addressed to the Romans who are gentiles. I am not sure if you noticed that or not. In the epistle when he meant us to understand he was actually addressing the Jews to make an important point concerning the transition from the principle of Law to that of grace, he said so. Check Ro 7:1 to Ro 11:12 and try believing the words you read. This is not hard like you are trying to make it.

    Ignorance was the stated excuse for Jews not believing in Christ when he came.

    Acts 2:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
    15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
    16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
    17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.


    I will quote this for you.

    Matt 8: 5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
    6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
    7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
    8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
    9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
    10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
    11 And I say unto you, That many shall come (Future tense - not has come) from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
    12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    (WHO ARE THESE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM?) Would someone like to identify them? Surely they are not ones coming from the east and the west to sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. That would have the text making no sense.

    13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

    He preached the "gospel of the kingdom" to Israel only. If you read the above there was no preaching going on to this centurion. He rewarded this man's request because of the faith he demonstrated. Jesus was not seeking the Centurion, the Centurion was seeking him. He probably never had read any OT promise from Jesus Christ concerning a kingdom. What he had heard and seen in Israel is a man who had power to heal people. He appealed to this aspect of the ministry of Jesus and Jesus made no condition for his healing. He did it strictly because he believed that Jesus could and would heal him if he asked him to. God always honors faith.

    Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

    Speaking of his earthly ministry he said this; "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house (family) of Israel. Israel and Jacob are the same person). If people are too numb to understand that saying I cannot help much with reason and logic.

    Here is God's own definition of the gospel of Christ. It is unreasonable and illogical to preach this before Jesus suffered and died and was buried and rose again, particularly when not a single one of his followers believed the gospel of Christ after it happened.

    1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
    _______________________________
    A few weeks earlier before the events of the gospel;

    Mt 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
    22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
    23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.






    It does not say that at all! Here is what it says.

    33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
    34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
    35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
    36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but NOW is my kingdom not from hence.
    37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

    The kingdom of Jesus is not of this world means that he will not receive his kingship from men. He had been preaching the kingdom of HEAVEN is at hand meaning that he came from heaven and his Father in heaven gave him his authority to rule. He also gave him every one who believed in him to be a citizen in that kingdom. Everyone who received it by believing two things, 1) that Jesus is the promised Messiah of Israel and 2) that he is the Son of God. Read it for yourself.

    Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
    31 But these are written, 1) that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, 2) the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    All those who believed these two things died but Jesus the Christ of God has power to raise them from the dead. All patriots know that the love of the kingdom is in the heart before it is real.

    Jesus is this following nobleman and the far country is heaven where the Father is.;

    Lu 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. (read context).

    I hope you can see these truths because your theology opposes God. The kingdom of heaven is the rule of heaven over the earth. Obviously the King being crucified by the citizens of the earth shows they have not submitted their hearts to him.

    We have no king but Caesar, they said.

     
  9. Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Did the Jews have an excuse for not believing the gospel? Nope See Romans 1:20

    2) Did Jesus (before His death) preach the gospel only to the Jews? Nope See Matthew 8:5 to 8:13, especially verses 11 and 12.

    3) Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of Christ? Nope See Matthew 24:14 which says:

    “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."

    4) See also John 18:36 where "kingdom" is said to be in the heart of believers, rather than anywhere on earth.

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not from here.”
     
  10. Van Well-Known Member
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    Was Jesus sent only to those of Jewish bloodline? Nope. God so loved humanity so that everyone (Jew or Gentile) believing into Him will have everlasting life.

    When did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, when He died on the cross or years later? When He died.

    When did Jesus say to make disciples of all nations? About 40 days after His death.

    Did Greeks come to see Jesus during His public ministry? Yes