Anti-Dispy?

LadyEagle · Oct 11, 2002

Got a better interpretation or explanation of the Scriptures than the dispensations?

See Larkin chart on Dispensations:

http://members.citynet.net/morton/images/history.gif

BrianT · Oct 11, 2002

Yes, I could probably put a better chart together. According to that one, you missed the rapture.

Daniel David · Oct 11, 2002

I concur with BrianT about this. I am pretrib and premill and think Larkin is in his own little world. His theology reaks of that stuff you find in a rusted roof gutter. I don't know of a single conservative teacher that recommends his stuff. He is way off base. His material is the kind of stuff I would expect to see at a Jack van Impe convention.

No thanks.

[ October 11, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Preach the Word ]

Jim1999 · Oct 11, 2002

Isn't dispensationalism listed under the cults?

Is the Scofield Reference Bible still in print?

Larkin is a great reference book for Free Masons.

Cheers,

Jim

Amil, reformed.

LadyEagle · Oct 11, 2002

Well, tsk..tsk. Lot's of unkind verbiage on here, but no alternative interpretation offered.

Clarence Larkin
1850-1924

American Baptist pastor, Bible teacher, and writer, Clarence Larkin was born October 28, 1850, in Chester, Delaware County, Pennsylvania. He was converted to Christ at the age of 19 and then felt called to the Gospel ministry, but the doors of opportunity for study and ministry did not open immediately. He then got a job in a bank.

When he was 21 years old, he left the bank and went to college, graduating as a mechanical engineer. He continued as a professional draftsman for a while, then he became a teacher of the blind. This last endeavor cultivated his descriptive faculties -- something God would later use in him to produce a monumental work on dispensational theology. Later, failing health compelled him to give up his teaching career. After a prolonged rest, he became a manufacturer.

But he was not happy. He felt that God wanted him in the Gospel ministry. When he was converted he had become a member of the Episcopal Church, but in 1882, at the age of 32, he became a Baptist and was ordained as a Baptist minister two years later. He went directly from business into the ministry.

His first charge was at Kennett Square, Pennsylvania; his second pastorate was at Fox Chase, Pennsylvania, where he remained for 20 years. He was not a premillennialist at the time of his ordination, but his study of the Scriptures, with the help of some books that fell into his hands, led him to adopt the premillennialist position. He began to make large wall charts, which he titled, "Prophetic Truth," for use in the pulpit. These led to his being invited to teach, in connection with his pastoral work, in two Bible institutes. During this time he published a number of prophetical charts, which were widely circulated.

When World War I broke out in 1914, he was called on for addresses on The War and Prophecy. Then God laid it on his heart to prepare a work on Dispensational Truth (or God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages), containing a number of charts with descriptive matter. He spent three years of his life designing and drawing the charts and preparing the text. The favorable reception it has had since it was first published in 1918 seems to indicate that the world was waiting for such a book.

Because it had a large and wide circulation in this and other lands, the first edition was soon exhausted. It was followed by a second edition, and then, realizing that the book was of permanent value, Larkin revised it and expanded it, printing it in its present form. Larkin followed this masterpiece with other books: Rightly Dividing the Word, The Book of Daniel, Spirit World, Second Coming of Christ, and A Medicine Chest for Christian Practitioners, a handbook on evangelism.

Larkin, a kind and gentle man, deplored the tendency of writers to say uncharitable things about each other, so he earnestly sought to avoid criticisms and to satisfy himself with simply presenting his understanding of the Scriptures. Though he did not intend to publish his own works, the Lord led in that direction. During the last five years of his life, the demand for Larkin's books made it necessary for him to give up the pastorate and devote his full time to writing. He went to be with the Lord on January 24, 1924.
Click to expand...

http://www.larkinestate.com/larkinbio.htm

The meanness and disrespect on this Board is just appalling. Clarence Larkin was probably a more Godly person and had a closer spiritual walk with the Saviour than most of the people who post on this board, myself included.

The attitudes on here are disgusting. It's so easy to bash & not offer anything substantial as an alternative.

KenH · Oct 12, 2002

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
The attitudes on here are disgusting. It's so easy to bash
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You mean things like calling the beliefs of fellow Christians with whom we disagree, evil.

What goes around, comes around, SheEagle911.

Ken

Bartholomew · Oct 12, 2002

Hi,

I'd call myself 'dispensational', though I'm not up for cutting history into seven 'dispensations', although it does seem to kind of work. To get back to the point, that link at the beginning of the thread is interesting, because it shows this guy (whom I've never heard of - sorry!) believed there was an unspecified gap between the rapture and the events of Revelation. This was a view held by many earlier dispensationalists, but it has really gone out of favour now. Could he be right???

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

LadyEagle · Oct 12, 2002

Originally posted by Bartholomew:
Hi,

I'd call myself 'dispensational', though I'm not up for cutting history into seven 'dispensations', although it does seem to kind of work. To get back to the point, that link at the beginning of the thread is interesting, because it shows this guy (whom I've never heard of - sorry!) believed there was an unspecified gap between the rapture and the events of Revelation. This was a view held by many earlier dispensationalists, but it has really gone out of favour now. Could he be right???

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew
Click to expand...

Hey, Bartholomew, thanks for your post!

Some of the old views may just well be the CORRECT views, eh?

Here are a few more of Larkin's charts:

http://members.citynet.net/morton/images/ldispen.gif

http://members.citynet.net/morton/images/church-kingdom.gif

http://members.citynet.net/morton/images/lheavens.gif

Our present calendar is off by 4 years (if I remember correctly, but can't remember which way it is off, 4+ or 4- LOL!)

Larkin's general overview of the dispensations make sense to me in light of the Scriptures and God's dealings with mankind. Haven't seen a better Biblically sound alternative anywhere.

Rev. G · Oct 13, 2002

Got a better interpretation or explanation of the Scriptures than the dispensations?
Click to expand...

Yes, and so did other believers for over 1800 years before your system came into place.

LadyEagle · Oct 14, 2002

Which is?

Rev. G · Oct 14, 2002

Well, a Covenant approach, for one.

[ October 14, 2002, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Rev. G ]

LadyEagle · Oct 15, 2002

Originally posted by Rev. G:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Got a better interpretation or explanation of the Scriptures than the dispensations?
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Yes, and so did other believers for over 1800 years before your system came into place.</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, your information is incorrect:

"The system of dispensational theology is recent in origin, but there are historical references which where eventually systematized into what we know as dispensationalism. Justin Martyr (110-165) held a concept of differing programs of God (Dialogue with trypho), and in the same work he spoke of the present dispensation's gifts of power (LXXXVII). Irenaeus (130-200) often spoke of the dispensations of God and especially of the Christian dispensation (Against Heresies, V,XXVIII.3). Clement of Alexandria (150-220) spoke of the dispensations of Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Mosaic. Augustine also reflected these early dispensational concepts in his writings (To Marcellinus, CXXXVIII,5,7). (6) Many others have followed, but dispensationalism's earliest influential spokesmen included J.N. Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren and considered by many the father of modern dispensationalism; Cyrus I. Scofield, author of the Scofield Reference Bible; Clarence Larkin, whose book of dispensational charts has been in print and selling briskly since 1918; and Ethelbert W. Bullinger was an Anglican clergyman who took dispensationalism to an unprecedented extreme usually called ultradispensationalism. "

http://www.bibleteacher.org

LadyEagle · Oct 15, 2002

Originally posted by Rev. G:
Well, a Covenant approach, for one.
Click to expand...

In what way? Care to elaborate?

KenH · Oct 15, 2002

SheEagle911, you might be interested in the radio program link in the "Replacement Theology" thread that I posted.

Ken

BrianT · Oct 15, 2002

SheEagle911, don't confuse the type of "dispensations" mentioned in the writings of the early church fathers with those of Darby, Scofield, Larkin, etc. Just because some of them used the term "dispensation" does not mean they used it in the same way.

Many of the early writings indeed see the "1000 years" as taking place after Christ returns, but none of them break down the "dispensations" like Darby/Scofield/Larkin, and none of them believed in a pretrib rapture. RevG's comments are correct, the modern system of "dispensationalism" started in the 1800s.

LadyEagle · Oct 15, 2002

Originally posted by BrianT:
SheEagle911, don't confuse the type of "dispensations" mentioned in the writings of the early church fathers with those of Darby, Scofield, Larkin, etc. Just because some of them used the term "dispensation" does not mean they used it in the same way.

Many of the early writings indeed see the "1000 years" as taking place after Christ returns, but none of them break down the "dispensations" like Darby/Scofield/Larkin, and none of them believed in a pretrib rapture. RevG's comments are correct, the modern system of "dispensationalism" started in the 1800s.
Click to expand...

Okay, very well. But consider this:

Daniel 12:[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
[8] And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Of course, if you don't believe we are living in the End Times....

BrianT · Oct 15, 2002

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Click to expand...

It was sealed until John:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

LadyEagle · Oct 15, 2002

Brian, not all.

Rev. 10:[4] And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

LadyEagle · Oct 15, 2002

I'm still waiting for "better explanations" and charts.....don't see any forthcoming, though.

KenH · Oct 15, 2002

Sometimes I wonder...could dispensational theology survive without charts?

Ken

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