In my learning, Baptism of people who have given a credible profession of Faith is what usually sets me apart from Presbyterians. (And Covenant Theology, Church rule)
However, there are those who would say that baptism by sprinkling or pouring is just as valid.
Now, I disagree. The word means to dip into. It was used of people who dyed cloth, dipping the cloth into dye.
Would your church accept someone who was Baptized by Pouring?
Baptism by Immersion
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Piper, Dec 15, 2023.
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As a Baptist I would expect them to be baptized in order to be a member of our church.
It is interesting to me that this has not always been the criteria for Baptists (I didn't know this for a long time). One historical requirement (for Baptists) was the type of water. Many believed it had to be "living water" (water that is moving, as opposed to a pool of water), but they accepted pouring of the water upon a believer.
I believe a lot of this goes to the symbolism.
Baptism was initially symbolic of purifying, of the forgiveness of sins (baptism for the forgiveness of sins....not as a requirement for sins to be forgiven but the purpose of the symbolism).
But today we view baptism as symbolic of death, burial, and resurrection. With this view baptism by immersion makes more sense to me. -
I've never heard of the moving water thing. You learn something every day.
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Alan Gross Well-Known MemberNot on your life.
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The "living water" is a requirement for the Jewish mikveh, a common mode of purification introduced in the Second Temple period and still used today. The pools were common in the first century but were predominantly used by the wealthy because it was beyond the means of the poor. I've read that John the Baptist's baptism was in opposition to the privatization of the mikveh because it was available to everyone. Can't find the source for that right now.
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite SupporterMatthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Would your church accept someone who was Baptized by Pouring?... Not according to scripture!... Brother Glen:) -
I cannot find any legal requirement in the Bible regarding method of baptism. I'm not sure that God is all too concerned with the process. He is concerned with covenantal union represented in baptism.
To the OP, my church would re-baptize a person who was baptized as an infant, but if baptized upon confession the mode of baptism would not be an issue. -
Alan Gross Well-Known MemberWhat is, "covenantal reunion"?
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Alan Gross Well-Known MemberYou might want to picture something mighten you?
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The choice to be baptized in water or not is up to the individual. First Corinthians 12:13 is the baptism that’s necessary, which is the baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ, at salvation.
The Holy Spirit adds those who become believers to the church, those that are saved. I don’t see anything in Scripture about joining a church, or anyone voting on whether to accept them or conditions thereto. If you attend the church, and you give money to support the church, you have joined that church, that is, you are a member, whether they officially recognize it or not.
Ultimately, while there are local congregations, there is only one body of Christ, only one church, the bride of Christ. Man does not decide who is in that one church; God makes that decision. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
I was taught as a young fellow that baptism is an outward expression of an inward conviction. We are saved by God's grace because we believe not because we were baptized.
As to the method of baptism, well mine was by full immersion but really does the method matter. God does not look to see how wet we are but rather how humble our heart is. -
Whoops, auto-correct. It is supposed to be covenantal union.
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I don't understand your question.
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You know....it is kind of ironic that the most concerned Christians over the mode of baptism are often those who view baptism as symbolic while those who view baptism as necessary for salvation are often less concerned about the mode (CoC is one notable exception).
Anyway, I agree that baptism is immersion. I just thought it a bit ironic. -
Alan Gross Well-Known MemberNope.
Baptism, by the Authority of God, is a command to all who are saved.
Peter commanded Baptism here, "Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 2:38.
No such thing as,
"the baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ, at salvation"
and that is certainly not the teaching of First Corinthians 12:13.
No.
You don't see it. You credulousness to believe something like,
"the baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ, at salvation",
as if there is any "baptism by the Holy Spirit", ever, to start with,
much less any, "baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ",
as if there is ever anything like that to do with "salvation",
has robbed you of appreciating the Bible teachings regarding
the Divinely Instituted local church (the only kind, ever)
and the Divine Ordinance of Baptism, membership, etc.,
by the Authority of God.
Negative on "joined".
Speaking of things Divinely Instituted by the Authority of God,
where is that in relation to this thing that I say is just made up,
i.e., "the baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ, at salvation"
"there is only one body of Christ, only one church", etc.?
BTW, have you ever considered the definitions of the words "body"
and "church"? that they carried and was their intention to mean,
at the times of the writing of the Bible?
Your "one body of Christ, only one church"
are desperately attempting to assign them to have some meaning
that the complete opposite of what they express.
You've created a New Doctrine and teaching out of thin air,
by redefining the meaning of these words, from what God revealed?
No such thing as, "that one church".
If there was, it'd be taught in the Bible,
not entirely contrived out of nothing.
God makes the decision about who is water-baptized
into one of His church bodies, to join in membership,
as "members in particular" (I Corinthians 12:27),
which is what I Corinthians 12:13 teaches.
I Corinthians 12:18 "But now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body*,
as it hath pleased him."
God makes the decision about who is water-baptized
into one of His church bodies*, to join in membership.
There is your "body* of Christ and members in particular".
12 "For as the body* is one, and hath many members,
and all the members of that one body*,
being many, are one body*: so also is Christ.
13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body*,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
14 "For the body* is not one member, but many."
That would be, "the church of God which is at Corinth,
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints."
I Corinthians 1:2.
*always talking about a local compact solid assembled 'body',
"the church of God which is at Corinth".
But, you won't get what is called New Testament Church Truth,
as it is written, because you've got your own thing going
all in your head.
Sorry, you've missed out entirely. -
I think the main reason is the word "baptism" (which is to immerse). It is literally impossible to baptize by sprinkling....for example.
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Alan Gross Well-Known MemberBaptism by immersion, picturing the death, burial,
and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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Are you saying that Jesus baptism by John was a symbolic action to show Jesus death, burial, and resurrection?
(Matthew 3:11-17)
“I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.” The Baptism of Jesus Then Jesus went from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized by John. But John tried to talk him out of it. “I am the one who needs to be baptized by you,” he said, “so why are you coming to me?” But Jesus said, “It should be done, for we must carry out all that God requires.” So John agreed to baptize him. After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy.”
Do you have scripture for your position? -
Believers should be baptized (only by immersion) but it’s not salvific. It is identification with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
The Holy Spirit adds to the church daily those that are saved.
Because a man “joins” a church means nothing if he’s a tare. -
Alan Gross Well-Known MemberI was saying, yes, that Jesus did it right, in that He was immersed and "came up out of water".
As with Jesus' example, when we are baptized it is symbolic action to show what Jesus did for us to save us, which was Jesus death, burial, and resurrection.
The Church and the Ordinances
A 12-Chapter Book
"Picture Preaching and Table Talking"
By Buell H. Kazee
Chapter 9
"The interpretation of the experience begins in the church by the use of symbols. One who has been saved is asked immediately to give expression to that salvation in a symbolic manner, namely, baptism.
"Here, then, we have;
THE PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCES.
"We assume that it is generally believed that the two ordinances of a scriptural church are baptism and the Lord's supper.
"Through these ordinances the church requires its members to give a right interpretation of the experience which they have had with Christ and are having with Him daily as they grow in His grace.
"We also declare in these ordinances our hope of the resurrection.
"These ordinances were given as the symbolic interpreters of the full salvation.
"They were given to the churches because they (the churches) are the institutions through which our Lord chose to preach to this lost world His message of salvation.
"See how they work with God's purposes in His churches.
1. They make the gospel plain.
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism in (unto) death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead
by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4).
"The verses which follow go on to elaborate upon the death of Christ.
"Christ dying for us becomes the basis of our justification; our dying with Him (repentance) and trusting Him for eternal life (faith) makes our salvation a personal experience with us.
"This is declared to the church, to the world and by the church in baptism.
"By this baptism we make the gospel plain, yea, we thus symbolically preach the way of salvation, dying to self and arising anew in Christ."
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