Billy Graham on How to Become a Christian

I cannot get it out of my head, or out of my heart, because it is the Word of God, my friend.

I regularly show the condition of the Old Testament Saint, and it was a condition of being in need of Eternal Redemption:


Hebrews 11:39-40
King James Version (KJV)

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


Pay attention to what is being said:


Hebrews 1:1-2
King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

How would you know. You display a very frail grasp of some very basic truths.

And you ignore the Word of God.

You impose into the Old Testament that which is not there, as I said, you are teaching popular pulpit mythology.

The Old Testament Saints did not receive Eternal Redemption prior to the Cross, the provision they had was a temporal and temporary provision for atonement and remission of sins. Noah, Abraham, and David all died offering up animal sacrifice, and their descendants did likewise. The reason is, again, very basic:


Hebrews 10:1-4
King James Version (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Go and learn what that meaneth.


God bless.

 

This...

...is a direct quote.

You continue to bear false witness.

But thanks for admitting you deny a basic Bible Doctrine. Here are the Scriptures for these two statements...


1 Corinthians 12:12-13
King James Version (KJV)

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Now what Body is it we are baptized into again?


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Now what does Christ the Baptizer baptize with again?

If you stop denying these basic truths it won't hurt you, I promise. Your pride, maybe, lol.


Continued...

 

Please.

I agree, so why don't you try to do a little discussing.

I don't mind insults, sarcasm, or even your bearing of false witness and false arguments...

...but at least address the Scripture and points.

Please.

False witness.

Quote me saying "Baptism by the Holy Spirit."

You will not because you cannot. A direct quote this time.


Continued...

 

You do not believe believers are baptized into Christ? And I am not speaking of water baptism, I am talking about believers being immersed into Christ.

That we are "in Christ" is just basic.

How would you know what the basis of the discussion is? You have not addressed anything I have said, any Scripture I have presented as support, or even been accurate in "directly quoting" me.

You have to create the above false argument just to stay in the "discussion."

And when you admit this is a false argument not relevant to the first thing I have said perhaps you will then give attention to what I am saying.

And do me a favor, don't close the thread until I get to all of your posts.


God bless.

 

You must be, you won't find it in any of my posts.

You are:

Show me where I said this.

My Doctrine is consistent, I know what I say.

You continue to bear false witness, hence my statement is affirmed. You know what I'm talking about, that which you edited.

Two verses and you are "quoting the Bible?"

And I would like to see this Bible of yours, and exactly which verse it is that says "...the Holy Spirit does not baptize anyone into anything or anyone."

Here is what The Bible states explicitly:


1 Corinthians 12:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


And I have given you multiple passages which affirm that we are placed in Christ when we are Eternally Redeemed.

Another simple question: does your Bible have pictures?

Which brings us back to what the discussion is about: no man was Baptized with the Holy Ghost prior to Pentecost. No man was immersed into the Body of Christ. Which is the same as saying no man was baptized into Christ.

The good news is that we are on page 8, so it won't be much longer you will have to dodge these simple questions, chief.

lol

Some people's kids...

Again, quote me. Stop bearing false witness. That would be progress, lol.


God bless.

 

That is not showing that the Church was "collectively Baptized with the Holy Ghost."

And you know it.

Abandon your popular pulpit mythology, TCassidy.

Every believer is Baptized with the Holy Ghost at the moment of salvation.

You are teaching the error that has been popular for quite some time, and you have not the first passage or verse to support it.

But thanks for having the courage to admit your error publicly. Took several pages, but you finally did it:

This will make quite an interesting thread, thanks!


Continued...

 

There is.

And I quote:

Your charismatic doctrine is in error, the Disciples were not simply "empowered," this was something that had not taken place before. They were "empowered during Christ's Ministry to cast out demons, heal, and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Peter defines what takes place in Chapter Ten:


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

If you'd take a little time to actually read the Word of God being given to you, you would see that "the Holy Ghost falling on them" is the same thing that happened to the disciples at the beginning, meaning Pentecost, when the Promised Spirit was given.

Peter then recalls the Lord's statement and ties it to the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.

And you call this mythical.

Absolutely amazing.


Continued...

 

It's there, the only question is why, after having been associated with Bible loving Christians who are here to discuss the Word of God so long...you can't see it?

Again I quote:


Hebrews 5:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

;)


Continued...

 

Sorry, no, unless you want to add to your error and say that Cornelius and his household were saved by being immersed in water:


Acts 11:14-6
King James Version (KJV)

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Peter states that what took place was that they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

You need to remove yourself from popular pulpit mythology and embrace the Word of GOd.

They were. God is One, and we are indwelt and in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost:


John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Continued...

 

This...

...will, as I said, make an interesting thread. I'd like to see just how many people think like that (that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is a myth).

Baptism is an immersion:




Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


That you think the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is a myth speaks volumes.

But this is the inevitable result of ignoring the simple truths presented to you. And I speak to everyone who has tried to deny them.


Continued...

 

Paul in romans shows to us that Abraham, david, Moses ANY saved of the OT times were saved by faith in God and in His promise of a coming Messiah, period.
And he also stated that the blood of lambs, bulls etc never ever did atone/cleanse from and for sins!

 

But we're not in Christ? We're not in the Father?

John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


We don't see the words "Trinity" or "Second Coming" but, just like the Baptism with the Holy Ghost...it's in there.


Continued...

 

Try reading a post you are responding to for a change.


God bless.

 

Correct.

And it is us in the Spirit.

And it is Christ in us.

And it is us in Christ.

And it is the Father in us.

And it is us in the Father.


John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

You mean as opposed to the "myth" of the Baptism with the Holy Ghost?


Continued...

 

Correct: we have the account of Cornelius being Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

It was how he was saved:


Acts 11:13-16
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Two Baptisms in view, the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, and water baptism. Their salvation took place when they received the Holy Ghost:


Acts 11:17-18
King James Version (KJV)

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


What do you think it means to receive the Gift through believing on Jesus Christ?

What do you think God granting repentance unto life means?

Here's a hint:


John 7:38-39
King James Version (KJV)

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


You keep your charismatic doctrine, I will stick with the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.


Continued...

 

Were the OT saints in the body of Christ, will they beat the time of the Second Coming?

 

Correct. And he makes it clear that what happened to Cornelius is what happened to them, which itself is made clear by Christ:


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Great, now all you have to do is find Scripture to support that.

Is there a picture of that in your Bible?

The Baptism with the Holy Ghost doesn't refer to empowering, TCassidy, that is the filling of the Holy Ghost which has been going on since the world began.

What is taking place here is something that is new to the world, and it began at Pentecost.

Twaddle.

While it is true this is an authentication of Gentile Inclusion, and that they are being saved the same way the Jews are is true, however, what you are forgetting (ignoring, denying, and blind to) is...

...both Jew and Gentile are only now being made one in the Body of Christ,

No Jew was ever placed into Christ prior to the coming of the Comforter, that is just a fact taught by Christ. He teaches this as a future event, not something that was already taking place.

And my point in regards to Cornelius was to counter the false teachings...

What is humorous is that even in this false teaching you confirm my doctrine, lol. Because what you say with the first false teaching is that it was not until Pentecost that the Old Testament Saints were...in the Spirit.

Kind of makes it hard to prove an equable salvation in the Old Testament Saint, doesn't it?

My suggestion is that you add the word "past" in with the first false teaching.


God bless.

 

No man was in Christ until the Promised Spirit was sent. I have numerous times shown you that, so why do you keep asking the same questions over and over?


God bless.