Yes it does. God desires those who He sent Christ into the world to save. All that He gave to His Son. And the Ones God desires, wills to be saved , all will be saved Job 23:13
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
Does God Desire for all to be Saved?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Salty, Apr 27, 2022.
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Yes He does
8 vote(s)53.3% -
Only if they are the elect
7 vote(s)46.7% -
Not sure
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Other answer
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Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
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Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
Think about it. God really desires, wills to save everybody, but what does He do? He has determined not to save them. These two things do not fit. God has made some people to be vessels of wrath and fitted for destruction Rom 9:21-22
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
God is of One Mind ! Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
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Likewise, God does not desire or take pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 33:7). Yet it is His will that they be destroyed (they will be cast into the Lake of Fire).
If God desires that the wicked repent rather than perish then why does not Hold make them repent? Because God is not a child. God can have a will which does not necessarily meet (on a different level) His desire. God is not the Author of evil -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Sure if he or she is one of Gods elect and God timed their conversion at that time. The bible tells about a thief that God was pleased to convert right when the thief was being executed. The thief was an elect of God.
So by your logic God is the one that condemns all those in hell. It is not their sin that puts them in hell it is Gods' choice to do so, just because He can.Your theology only allows for the "elect" to be saved so by extension all the non-elect are condemned. And since you say God has only chosen the "elect" that means He did not chose the non-elect. So all those that are condemned are so because He did not choose them and not because they sin as the choice was made before time began.
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Jesus used the word "whoever" many times. Not once did He say "Whoever if elect".
When one is saved, one BECOMES elect, elected as a citizen of God's kingdom by its King, Jesus Christ. -
Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
And God created some people as vessels of wrath and fits them for destruction. So why would He desire them to repent and be saved ? That would be contrary to His Purpose.
Ezk 33 :7 is speaking about His Elect among Israel. Obviously they arent vessels of wrath.
See Gods elect are like other men naturally, wicked, but God will not take pleasure in their death. -
Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
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Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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In other words, was his response the cause of Jesus saving him or was God's dragging him to Jesus the cause of his response? -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Luk 23:42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"
Luk 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
Confession - Salvation
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord ... you will be saved
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Actually quite easy to understand if you just read the text without reading into it what you want to find. -
Was his (the thief's) response the cause of Jesus saving him or was God's dragging him to Jesus the cause of his response? -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord ... you will be saved
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Actually quite easy to understand if you just read the text without reading into it what you want to find.
Here is your question "1] Was his (the thief's) response the cause of Jesus saving him or 2] was God's dragging him to Jesus the cause of his response?"
What about the comments do you not understand? Read them again and see if it becomes clearer for you. Which view 1] or 2] is answered by the verses I posted.
I have not danced around it, you are just refusing to see or more likely ignoring the answer. -
Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
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Brightfame52 Well-Known Member
10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?
11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
This didnt apply to the egyptians, amorites, hitites, but a specific people in Covenant with God of Israel !
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