Does the Bible allow Christians to defend themselves with lethal force?

You're wrong.

Eleven chapters before Luke 22 that proves that, you are proven wrong again.
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."

Please don't presume to argue that verse only approves defending material possessions, not one's self.

Romans 13:
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer.5Therefore it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes. For the authorities are God’s servants, who devote themselves to their work.

You can ignore Luke 22 and Jesus commanding his Disciples to buy a sword, again and again.

The scripture stands. And has for centuries.

If weapons were not approved by Jesus he'd never have told all of his Disciples to buy one.
And they did. Which is why they were armed in Gethsemane.

Please don't continue to abrogate Jesus' teaching in Luke 22.

If you would never defend your family's life against an offensive attack that is your choice. Though that is also not of Jesus or his teaching.

However, you actually cannot make Luke 22 say what you believe.
The Apostles were armed in Gethsemane because Jesus told them to buy swords.

He told them not to use their swords when the temple guards came to arrest him because that act was part of God's plan of Salvation.

As he said, Jesus could never be taken into custody if it wasn't intended to happen.

 

1. Matthew 5:10-12

10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.



2. Matthew 5:44

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.



3. 2 Corinthians 12:10

That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.



4. 1 Peter 3:14

But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.



5. Romans 8:35-37

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.



6. 1 Peter 4:14

If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.



7. James 1:12

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.



8. Romans 5:3-5

3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.



9. James 1:2-4

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.



10. Revelation 3:11

I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

 

Acts 23:1-5,11-22

And looking intently at the council, Paul said, “Brothers, I have lived my life before God in all good conscience up to this day.” And the high priest Ananias commanded those who stood by him to strike him on the mouth. Then Paul said to him, “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall! Are you sitting to judge me according to the law, and yet contrary to the law you order me to be struck?” Those who stood by said, “Would you revile God’s high priest?” And Paul said, “I did not know, brothers, that he was the high priest, for it is written, ‘You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.’”

The following night the Lord stood by him and said, “Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome.” When it was day, the Jews made a plot and bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they had killed Paul. There were more than forty who made this conspiracy. They went to the chief priests and elders and said, “We have strictly bound ourselves by an oath to taste no food till we have killed Paul. Now therefore you, along with the council, give notice to the tribune to bring him down to you, as though you were going to determine his case more exactly. And we are ready to kill him before he comes near.” Now the son of Paul’s sister heard of their ambush, so he went and entered the barracks and told Paul. Paul called one of the centurions and said, “Take this young man to the tribune, for he has something to tell him.” So he took him and brought him to the tribune and said, “Paul the prisoner called me and asked me to bring this young man to you, as he has something to say to you.” The tribune took him by the hand, and going aside asked him privately, “What is it that you have to tell me?” And he said, “The Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul down to the council tomorrow, as though they were going to inquire somewhat more closely about him. But do not be persuaded by them, for more than forty of their men are lying in ambush for him, who have bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they have killed him. And now they are ready, waiting for your consent.” So the tribune dismissed the young man, charging him, “Tell no one that you have informed me of these things.”

Acts 23:25-31
And he wrote a letter to this effect: “Claudius Lysias, to his Excellency the governor Felix, greetings. This man was seized by the Jews and was about to be killed by them when I came upon them with the soldiers and rescued him, having learned that he was a Roman citizen. And desiring to know the charge for which they were accusing him, I brought him down to their council. I found that he was being accused about questions of their law, but charged with nothing deserving death or imprisonment. And when it was disclosed to me that there would be a plot against the man, I sent him to you at once, ordering his accusers also to state before you what they have against him.” So the soldiers, according to their instructions, took Paul and brought him by night to Antipatris.

Acts 25:8-12
Paul argued in his defense, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I committed any offense.” But Festus, wishing to do the Jews a favor, said to Paul, “Do you wish to go up to Jerusalem and there be tried on these charges before me?” But Paul said, “I am standing before Caesar’s tribunal, where I ought to be tried. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you yourself know very well. If then I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything for which I deserve to die, I do not seek to escape death. But if there is nothing to their charges against me, no one can give me up to them. I appeal to Caesar.” Then Festus, when he had conferred with his council, answered, “To Caesar you have appealed; to Caesar you shall go.”

 

That is a tough one. In a case where the Christian has minimal other duties and is persecuted for Christ CAN he use lethal force? I think he CAN, but that he doesn't have to.

When protecting others there is a "duty to act" element. When just protecting yourself alone, that element doesn't exist.

If I had to rank lethal force in order of Easiest Biblical Justification to Least Biblical Justification
1. Lethal force in defense of others - Easily Biblical
2. Lethal force in defense of self - Sometimes Biblical
3. Lethal force in defense of property - Rarely Biblical

A Christian should be less likely to use lethal force to defend himself versus using lethal force to defend others.

 

I tend to agree with you about protecting your family from violent criminals.

However, what if you are facing persecution for the cause of Christ? What if you are attacked for your faith? Does the Bible teach you can use lethal force to protect yourself, or does the Bible teach we should humbly endure such persecution, even to the point of death, just as our Lord Jesus did?

I think the latter is the clear teaching of scripture.

peace to you

 

Concerning duty. Is it not our duty to God to suffer as Jesus suffered, lowly and meek without fighting back?

Doesn’t scripture teach us all who desire to live a Godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. Doesn’t scripture tell us we should be joyful that we are deemed worthy to suffer for the cause of Christ as our Lord suffered?

I agree, this is not easy to even consider, much less embrace and put into practice.

peace to you

 

Same God did such in the OT, correct?

 

God has ordained the means and ways by which those who commit evil deeds are punished, and at times it includes being shot down in self defense!

 

refers to spiritual warfare against Satan and His dominions , but does not speak to defending oneself against evil persons and evil acts they want to commit! My youngest son, a marine, would use deadly force to protect his own!

 

is there ANY NT passage prohibiting us to be able to use force to self defense ourselves?

 

Think the response should be appropriate for each case by case, as someone knocking on my locked door is different then one who broke it down and is now in the house!

 

Does he not use guns to defend his own?

 

Is not the Lord Himself using indirectly things such as guns to defend his own though?

 

Of course, but God dealt with Israel in various and sundry ways.

In these final days our focus is Christ and what He has taught us, specifically about suffering as He suffered in meekness and humility without violence toward those persecuting us. Correct?

peace to you

 

I think its easy for us to make observations regarding persecution for the faith when we're not actually being tortured. Or are facing such threats in real time .

I think it makes little sense in matters of consistency, when we are told in the OT those who don't provide for their family are worse than an unbeliever .
And in the NT we are expected to defend our house against offenders and then insist we have to remain docile and passive under personal lethal threat because we are Christian.

Our dying horrific deaths because we are Christian isn't immulating Jesus.
There is only one Jesus. And he suffered and died to establish and seal with his blood a new covenant.

Our death doesn't do a thing to preserve that covenant.
I think our God given lives are a blessing. I think it hubris to insist conceding to the evil of terrorists seeking to take it because we're Christians allows evil to triumph over the righteous good that doesn't think enough of God's gift so to try to stop it.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

We believe in God. Don't be in a hurry to meet him. Especially when evil will thrive for one less member of his church here to remind the world, Jesus saves.

He saves our soul from sin but tells us we're not to save our own life from evil?

That's Rome! Who had a great deal to do with making the NT what it is.
Not Jesus.
Jesus told his Disciples to buy swords. Arm themselves, in Luke 22.

We're told to test the spirits and not believe every spirit.
The teachings of God-Jesus must be consistent because he is a superior being with a plan.
God is not a man that he should lie.

When Jesus told his Disciples to buy swords, it wasn't so to use them as paperweights.

If the time comes we'll know what we'll do if our lives are threatened. For me, if I'm suppose to defend my family from murderous evil , it makes no sense to think I myself should passively consent to evils intent when it tries to kill me.
Nor did Jesus say I should.

Each person will make their own choice if the challenge be ones real.

Right now all of us are safe projecting what we'd do, or what should be done.

Reality may make difference in that.

 

There are chaplains in every branch of the U.S military.

In Jesus time the sword was the most formidable weapon of its day, bar none.
The sword then was like unto a handgun today.
The most formidable weapon for self defense.

If we were to remain passive as believers Jesus would have never armed his Disciples.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 22 - Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament

Armed so that the prophecy might also be fulfilled. That he be counted among the lawless. (Per Roman law) Because it was illegal for those conquered by Rome to own,possess,weapons.
(sound familiar?)

 

That refers to when we are experiencing trouble at the hands of others just due to us being a Christian, but not dealing with a raptist trying to rape your wife!

 

No.
Not if we first accept God who tells he does not change, and is the same yesterday,today,forever.

The OT is full of evidence that God directed his faithful to war against his enemies. His Hebrew faithful killed in his name and at his instruction.

Now there are factions in the faith that claim that is s a fulfillment of the Messiah OT prophecies that insist God-Jesus is a strong pacifist. And directs his faithful to fall in the face of homicidal evil.

To not resist evil. To take abuse, consent to be tortured,murdered, without lifting a finger to stop it.
To allow those who violate the command, thou shalt not steal, to succeed against us in that effort. And in fact give them more than what they intend to thieve from us in the first place.

To turn the other cheek when assaulted. In essence, consent to be beaten to death.

And all those verses that tell slaves to be obedient unto their masters, obey the emperor no matter what, pay our taxes.

Is that consistent with OT God? Who is the same in that yesteryear, today, and forever?

Or is it the interpolation of Rome?

Who knew they'd rule and conquer easily and meet no resistance if they but told the faithful God said it?

And the faithful assured their reward if they but obey those put in charge over them, because they're there by God's design (Lenin,Stalin,Pol Pot, Hitler, Un, Biden,Obama, etc....).

I think it important for any Christian to study how the New Testament (NT) came to exist.
Especially the Chronological order of its books.

Look in images on a search engine for the remains of the texts scribes copied from in order to create the Bible and NT. Copies, of copies, of copies.

And scrolls are still being discovered today.

Remember, the gospel was an oral tradition before it was put into writing.

Remember too, God's indwelling Holy Spirit that Jesus says shall lead us to all truth. And God who tells us his laws are written in our hearts so we shall never be far from them.

Test the spirits, be not deceived.
Jesus sacrifice and the free irrevocable gift of God's grace through faith and salvation makes us Saints. Not punching bags or target silhouettes for homicidal evil.

Our God is the God of eternal life. Not death.

We're meant to be tallied as Christians, who are Christ like. Not corpses stacked like cordwood at the foot of an enemy who met no resistance in us.

Especially when God of yesterday was never passive in the face of evil. And does not change today, or ever.

 

I have acknowledged the difficulty of accepting the teaching we are not to defend ourselves if persecuted for the faith. There is really no question that is what was taught by Jesus and the apostles.

Concerning Jesus’ command to buy swords, the context is to advise His disciples of a change as they go forth. Unlike when He sent out the 70, now they would encounter danger as they preached the gospel. Had He expected armed revolution He would have not told them two swords were enough.

Just as a note; His disciples continuously misinterpreted what he said as they did here by pointing out they had two swords. Jesus told them “that is enough”. So either Jesus os saying it was enough of that kind of talk or, they only needed two swords among the 12 and other disciples to protect themselves. The former makes sense in the context and it is clear from early church history that is how Christians understood His words.

peace to you

 

I tend to agree with you on protecting family as opposed to being persecuted for the faith.

I would do everything to protect my family.

I would pray God enabled me to endure suffering for the cause of Christ as Jesus and His Apostles did..

peace to you