Enduring to the End

I answered as needed to refute your false understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

 

@George Antonios, I am not going to continue to discuss dispensational nonsense with you in this thread. Now please, either desist or bow out.

 

I meant you did not tell me how I can make my dispensational point without discussing future dispensations.

Maybe slow down a little.

 

I'm sorry but this goes beyond framing the conversation; you're basically saying: "don't give a dispensational answer".
You can't do that.

 

Yes, I can. I started this thread, sir!

 

Gill: "but he that endureth to the end shall be saved: which words suggest, that the tribulations and persecutions of the disciples of Christ, through the hatred of wicked men against them, shall not last always; there will be an end to them; respecting either the end of time and life, or the destruction of Jerusalem, when these their enemies would be cut off, or removed, and be capable of giving them no further trouble; and that such persons are happy, who patiently endure the hatred of men [CONDITION], and all manner of persecution [CONDITION], for Christ's sake; who are not moved by the afflictions they suffer [CONDITION], but stand fast in the faith [CONDITION], hold fast the profession of it, go on in their Christian course [CONDITION], and hold out to the end [CONDITION]; for such shall be saved, not only with a temporal salvation, as the Christians were at the destruction of Jerusalem, but with an eternal one."

 

How did I go against your OP? You posted an exposition of Matthew 10:22 without qualifications.

I responded with a different exposition of Matthew 10:22, and a comforting one at that.

What did I transgress?

 

Evidently, you know nothing about John Gill's preaching. You seem to be so wrapped up in your mind in false teaching that you see conditions everywhere. Maybe you should read Ephesians 2:10 and see that God's elect perform good works but they are not their own as God is the One Who ordained them by His absolutely totally sovereign power and will.

 

By bringing your silly, nonsensical, false dispensational eschatology into this thread.

 

So you confirm what I said: I did not post anything irrelevant to the OP. You just don't like the exposition and wish to limit how people who disagree with you expound the verse you expounded.
That's now who civil Christian conversation, let alone this board, works.

 

Well of course.

 

The purple is Scripture.

 

You must be of the Iconoclast school... He had a way with colors too... Bothered some on here who were colorblind... I just post the scripture in black bold... That way it stands out... Brother Glen:)

 

.
1 Corinthians 13:7, ". . . endureth all things. . . ."

1 John 4:7-9, ". . . Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. . . ."

 

There is a lot for a believer to DO in this life. There must be a pursuit of holiness, a race that is run, temptations to fight, battles with the world, the flesh and the devil that if not done - salvation will not occur. The Holy Spirit is the initiator and determining influence from initial salvation through a life of increasing Christlikeness and spiritual maturity. Since it is the Holy Spirit initiating and working in us all along we have promises from scripture of the success of this that are sure. Knowing that should encourage us to strive harder for holiness and good works which always accompany salvation.

 

False. Once one is spiritually alive, he remains spiritually alive. One is not saved, then lost again, then saved again, then lost again, etc. The flower of salvation is not the daisy - days He loves me and days He doesn't.

Ever read the story of David or the story of Peter, for just a couple of examples? Maybe you should especially read the story of Samson. Salvation is conditioned 100% on Christ alone, not at all on God's elect.

Does that mean the elect can live just any old way? Nope. But as we read in Ephesians 2:10 and Philippians 2:13 any good works the elect do are ordained by God according to His sovereign will and good pleasure. The elect serve God out of love and gratitude, not out of a mercenary spirit.

 

Another issue is that not all of the elect, before God regenerated them and granted them faith and repentance from dead works, were going around having sex outside of marriage or killing people or beating people up or robbing banks or committing fraud or robbing or cussing or getting drunk or engaging in what we tend to lump into the category of "heinous sins". So this idea that everyone after regeneration is going to have some great change in behavior from how they acted previously is bogus. And as I mentioned him in my previous post, Samson never got past his womanizing ways, even though it got him in trouble in his life and eventually cost him his eyes; but after being regenerated by God, he was never unregenerated. God's elect suffer chastisement, but they don't suffer punishment.

Hebrews 12:7-11 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

This is not the choice. Once one is spiritually alive they will go on to do works, pursue holiness and battle the world, the flesh and the devil. You don't get saved and then God waits to see if you follow up with these things. However these things must follow, and by "must" I mean it both ways - that they must in that they will for certain, and that they must or the person will not be saved. Both things are true. Both things originate in the Holy Spirit and are done by the person.

Chastening, hardships in life, physical limitations, setbacks and so on are part of the Holy Spirit's work in a believers life. Notice in the passage above it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness. That involved change and action on the part of the individual. Both are true.

Also, while everyone may not have a startling story of post conversion change to give as a testimony, still, if you as a moral person really look into your own heart - which you will do when the Holy Spirit enlightens you, you will find a cesspool of malice and evil thought and if not that, then self-righteousness.