Are adopted children of God not saved out of their orphaned life of rebellion? Is God's choice, predestined before the foundation of the world, not enough to save us, who are God's children in Christ? Must the word "salvation" be written down and if not are we therefore not adopted children of God?
Utilyan, are you unable to see how silly you are being?
Ephesians 1 Clarified
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by utilyan, Aug 25, 2020.
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Barry Johnson Well-Known Member
From the beginning God had chosen the vehicle in which belivers will be saved . And its not to be appointed to wrath as these believer's had thought was happening to them .
1 thes 5 The context that no calvinist ever bothers to check . Context never matters to a reformed thinking. He's got his proof text with his system.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11¶Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. -
Barry Johnson Well-Known Member
And every time you see 'us ' its a normative use . We use this all the time . It doesn't mean its exclusive . -
Silly? If I was a Calvinist debating a non-Calvinist thinking I can get him to understand when supposedly I believe only GOD can do it, THAT WOULD BE SILLY.
Those mentioned in Ephesians 1 don't need salvation BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED. He is just telling them the cherry on top of being saved.
Its like if I said from before the foundation of the earth God chosen for we--> IN CHRIST(<YOU SAVED FOLK) THAT we would have the best treats in heaven.
Your heart is in the right place......YOUR reading comprehension, however requires sanctification.
Its hard for you to UNSEE because over repeatedly indoctrination. READ IT SLOWLY. -
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No Ephesians 1 says what they are getting FOR being ALIVE in Christ. Because they are saved they are chosen to be holy and blameless before Him.
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Chose us in him for what? -->that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love .
Ephesians 2 says why God made them alive.....LITERALLY says why God did it and when.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
That is DURING the time they were SEPARATE , not IN HIM. "WHILE DEAD"
You have to take off the Calvinist Glasses, And read the scripture slowly for what it says rather then what someone else told you.
God Saved them because he was rich in mercy and has great love for them. -
You guys have been indoctrinated so every-time the word Chosen/Elect is thrown around it means Chosen to go to heaven.
Jesus Christ CHOSE, ELECTED the twelve Apostles, That does not mean Judas is Elect and Chosen to go into heaven.
What a person is chosen and elect for is explained in the context of the verse. -
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They we're chosen and made holy, because God chose to redeem them.
utilyan, you continually preach God as less than and man as more than.
Paul tells us that it is all God. Why do you insist on lifting up the work of man and reducing the work of God? -
Ephesians 2
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
THAT is why.
Its not because he chose saved people to be holy and blameless before him. -
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It says 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
That :"US" is saved people. ---> 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:
Nothing in the verse talks about salvation, other verses do. Nothing in that verse talks about being alive in Christ, other verses do.
We follow what scripture SAYS. Not what you wish it means. -
If you must have the word "salvation" or "saved" for your brain to comprehend, then read this:
Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
utilyan, you are fighting against God and His word. When will you stop fighting and accept what God tells you? -
Many times the meaning of a verse or passage is ambiguous, with well studied people holding differing views as to its meaning, but 1 Peter 2:10 is not one of them. Its meaning is crystal.
You made reference to "my theology" as if it differed in some way from biblical theology. It does not. -
"The "us" is...Adopted people who were once dead in our trespasses and sins."
That is correct.
Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Sounds great.
Doesn't change the fact you don't know how to read Ephesians 1.
GOD has CHOSEN for free men to get a brand new car. <--- That has nothing to do with slaves becoming free men.
All I can emphasis is find someone with an English major to read the verse for you.
I know your dilemma I just kicked the legs from underneath your chair and your now grasping to find the legs to hold up your wrong view. If you can think for yourself you can find another scripture.
EPHESIANS 1 <----YOU LOST THIS BATTLEFIELD. -
What I don't understand is you. And you are not the spokesperson for God and Ephesians 1. If you cannot speak with clarity that is simply your problem.
What I can see is that you agree with me when I state:
"The "us" is...Adopted people who were once dead in our trespasses and sins." -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
So, Ephesians 1 is really talking about God's initiating intervention in our salvation, not our response to Him.
The Archangel -
Again Calvinist always leave Jesus out, where it says "IN HIM".
I'll explain it for you again since you haven't read the thread.
Ephesians 1
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Ephesians 2
12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
YOU were NOT ALWAYS IN HIM.
You were SEPARATE FROM JESUS, with no covenant promises, IE NOT CHOSEN or ELECT for salvation, If you were CHOSEN and elect for salvation prior to being IN CHRIST then you would have the HIGHEST HOPE and GOD. Scripture says you had NIETHER.
Ephesians 1 is talking TO saved folks, And he is telling THOSE SAVED FOLKS, IN CHRIST Have been chosen for what? ----> Chosen to be holy and blameless.
He could have said they were chosen to take out the trash, chosen to eat all the cows, chosen to steer the clouds in heaven.
We read the sentence to see what they are chosen for.....This is called CONTEXT.
The problem is you have an eisegesis of loading the word CHOSEN, ELECT to ONLY mean CHOSEN for Salvation.
So the next time your buddy CHOSE to eat a Cheeseburger you don't assume he is ELECT of God and heaven bound. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I honestly have no idea why you are so hung up on thinking Calvinists don't believe their entire existence is found in Christ. Every Reformed person I have ever met knows they are found in Christ and apart from Christ they are wretched.
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