Faulty Theology

The Bible only seems to know two sorts of people: those who are 'alive unto God' and those who are 'dead in trespasses.' What I'm asking is, which were Adam and Eve?

Again, were they 'alive unto God' or 'dead in trespasses?

Well, do you think it's a possibility? And if so, how do you answer my question?

 

This is still going on, huh? Jon, have you ever defined precisely what you mean by spiritual life and spiritual death?

 

Apostle Paul was inspired by God to tell us that we all spiritual died in Adam, and made Spiritually alive again in Jesus, second Adam, but JonC theology takes that away!

 

They were before the fall spiritually alive, then died, and God provided for them a messiah to enable them to become alive again!

 

Of COURSE they are a special case. They are the only two humans, other than Christ, created without sin. They, before the fall, are fundamentally different than all who came after.

 

Yea and its crazy. Definitely not orthodox

 

What "Calvinist" would teach "made to be spiritually dead?" This is your projection.

What I say is that God made Adam spiritually alive, with the capacity to disobey and thus corrupt what was created alive and holy.

When Adam disobeyed, the corruption of his nature brought about both physical and spiritual death (dying you shall die).

There was no capacity in Adam to undo what he had done. No capacity to choose redemption. Adam was at the mercy of God (which is why he hid). God, however, chose to extend redemptive grace to Adam through the promise that a Redeemer would come.

In extending grace to Adam, God brought restoration to Adam. This was a restoration Adam did not deserve, yet God chose to restore Adam anyway.

This restoration did not come without consequences to Adam and his offspring, however. We see that narrative progress from the casting out of the garden up to the present moment.

So, this argument that Adam had no spirit before the fall is an argument from silence and from what the Bible does not say. It is not an argument from what the Bible actually says.

 

I never said that. I said that Adam being made spiritually dead would be problematic for Calvinists.

Fine. You can say that, but you can't say the Bible specifically says Adam was spiritually alive.

Is a strawman argument that no one is making.

 

"Something: in adam certainly changed when he sinned, as His relationship with God was then broken, and he needed a messiah!

 

I would prefer to call your theology "outside main reformed and Baptist theology"

 

Jon, when the majority see your position as unsupported, your position becomes an outlier, not a standard position.

You are trying to make your position the norm. It is not the norm.

 

More than that! Adam no longer was in a spiritual relationship with God, lost His communion, and then needed a messiah to save him!

 

It is outside main reformed and Baptist viewpoints!

 

actually MM and I would see it more that God forsook Jesus for those 3 hours while he was the Sin bearer, as per the scriptures!
And just who would hold to that theology of your if not reformed nor Baptists?