1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

God's Best Turned to Evil

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    261
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    King Solomon says in Proverbs, “The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorredof the Lord shall fall therein.” And then scripture goes on to say, “But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:”

    Here is a story on Noah as told by John Bunyan...

    "This is the blot in this good man's scutcheon; and a strange blot it is, that such an one as Noah should be thus overtaken with evil!" From the Exposition into the First Ten Chapters of Genesis - By John Bunyan


    Chapter 9 Ver. 20, 21. "And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:—And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent."

    This is the blot in this good man's scutcheon; and a strange blot it is, that such an one as Noah should be thus overtaken with evil! One would have thought that Moses should now have began with a relation of some eminent virtues, and honourable actions of Noah, since now he was saved from the death that overtook the whole world, and was delivered, both he and his children, to possess the whole earth himself. Indeed, he stepped from the earth to the altar; as Israel of old did sing on the shore of the red Sea: But, as they, he soon forgat; he rendered evil to God for good.[40]

    Neither is Noah alone in this matter: Lot also being delivered from that fire from heaven that burnt up Sodom and Gomorrah, falls soon after into lewdness with the children of his body, and begetteth his own two daughters with child (Gen 19:30-36).

    Gideon also, after he was delivered out of the hands of his enemies, took that very gold which God had given him, as the spoil of them that hated him, and made himself idols therewith (Judg 8:24-27). What shall I say of David? and of Solomon also, who after he had been twenty years at work for the service of the true God, both in building and preparing for his worship, and in writing of Proverbs by divine inspiration; did, after this, make temples for idols; yea, almost for the gods of all countries? Yea, he did it when he was old, when he should have been preparing for his grave, and for eternity. "It came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods:—For Solomon went after Ashtoreth, the goddess of the Zidonians; and after Milcom, the abomination of the Ammonites.—He did also build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem; and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods" (1 Kings 11:4-8).

    All these sins were sins against mercies; yea, and doubtless against covenants, and the most solemn resolutions to the contrary. For who can imagine, but that when Noah was tossed with the flood, and Lot within the scent and smell of the fire and brimstone that burnt down Sodom, with his sons, and his daughters; and Gideon, when so fiercely engaged with so great an enemy, and delivered by so strange a hand; should in the most solemn manner both promise and vow to God. But behold! now they in truth are delivered and saved, they recompense all with sin. Lord, what is man! "How - abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water" (Job 15:16). Let these things learn us to cease from man, "whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?" (Isa 2:22). Indeed, it is a vain thing to build our faith upon the most godly man in the world, because he is subject to err; yea, far better than He, was so.

    If Noah, and Lot, and Gideon,and David, and Solomon, who wanted not matter from arguments, and that of the strongest kind; as arguments that are drawn from mercy and goodness be, to engage to holiness, and the fear of God; yet after all, did so foully fall, as we see: let us admire grace, that any stand; let the strongest fear, lest he fearfully fall; and let no man but Jesus Christ himself be the absolute platform and pattern of faith and holiness. As the prophet saith, "Let us cease from man." But to return:

    "And Noah began to be an husbandman." This trade he took up for want of better employment; or rather, in mine opinion, from some liberty he took to himself, to be remiss in his care and work, as a preacher. For seeing the church was now at rest, and having the world before them, they still retaining outward sobriety, poor Noah, good man, now might think with himself, "I need not now be so diligent, watchful and painful in my ministry as formerly; the church is but small, without opposition, and also well settled in the truth; I may now take to myself a little time to tamper with worldly things." So he makes an essay upon husbandry. "He began to be an husbandman." Ha, Noah! it was better with thee when thou wast better employed! Yea, it was better with thee, when a world of ungodly men set themselves against thee! Yea, when every day thy life was in danger to be destroyed by the giants, against whom thou wast a preacher above a hundred years! For then thou didst walk with God; Then thou wast better than all the world; but now thou art in the relapse!

    Hence note, That though the days of affliction, of temptation and distress, are harsh to flesh and blood; yet they are not half so dangerous as are the days of peace and liberty. Wherefore Moses pre-admonished Israel, That when they had received the land of Canaan, and had herds, and silver and gold in abundance, that then their heart be not lifted up to forget the Lord their God. Jesurun kicked when he was fat. O! When provender pricks[41] us, we are apt to be as the horse or mule, that is without understanding (Deu 8:10-15).

    "He planted a vineyard: and he drank of the wine, and was drunken." Although in the course of godliness, many men have but a speculative knowledge of things; yet it is not so in the ways of this world and sin, the practical part of these things are lived in by all the world. They are sinners indeed, "He drank of the wine."

    "He drank of the wine, and was drunken." The Holy Ghost, when it hath to do with sin, it loveth to give it its own name: drunkenness must be drunkenness, murder must be murder, and adultery must bear its own name. Nay, it is neither the goodness of the man, nor his being in favour with God, that will cause him to lessen or mince his sin. Noah was drunken; Lot lay with his daughters; David killed Uriah; Peter cursed and swore in the garden, and also dissembled at Antioch. But this is not recorded, to the intent that the name of these godly should rot or stink: but to shew, that the best men are nothing without grace; and, "that he that standeth, should not be high minded, but fear." Yea, they are also recorded, for the support of the tempted, who when they are fallen, are oft raised up by considering the infirmities of others. "Whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience, and comfort of the scriptures might have hope" (Rom 15:4).

    "And he was uncovered within his tent." That is, he lay like a drunken man, that regarded not who saw his shame. Hence note, how beastly a sin drunkenness is; it bereaveth a man of consideration, and civil behaviour; it makes him as brutish and shameless as a beast; yea, it discovereth his nakedness to all that behold.

    "And he was uncovered." That is, lay naked, Behold ye now, that a little of the fruit of the vine, lays gravity, grey hairs, and a man that for hundreds of years was a lover of faith, holiness, goodness, sobriety, and all righteousness; shamelessly, as the object to the eye of the wicked, with his nakedness in his tent.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    261
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    And Martin Luther and John Calvin turned out to be terrible men in their old age. And to quote...

    "Pure devilry is urging on the peasants…Therefore let all who are able, mow them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel. You must kill him as you would a mad dog…" -Martin Luther

    "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory." - John Calvin
     
  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There's no denying that even God's elect can, and in fact do, fall into sin from time to time, and even for an extended period of time. But instead of saying "God's best turned to evil", I like to think We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.[Romans 8:28]

    When David committed adultery with Bathsheba, God was sure to have that mentioned in His word. When Abram told Sarai to lie and say they were brother and sister, God made sure that that was placed in His word, too. When Solomon took idolatrous women for his wives and concubines and even paid to have their temples built and even worshiped idols with them, God made sure that that was not omitted either. Why? It shows the grace of God extends further than the sins of His elect does. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.[Romans 5:20]
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...