How do Calvinists interpret John 3:16

While it's a "sound calvinist interpretation" it's not a sound biblical interpretation.

 

In your opinion, not in mine :)

 

Oh, there is nothing wrong with seeking the teaching of others, but they do not know everything. If they did we could just throw away our Bibles and read the works of Calvin or Spurgeon or whoever. No matter how we revere teachers of the word, they are human and everything they teach should be compared to scripture and sometimes it will line up and sometimes it won't. Mormons are Mormons because they put their faith in the works of Joseph Smith instead of the truth of God's word. If I lived on a deserted island with only a Bible to read, I could still know the truth in His word because He is with me and in me. He is the
true teacher.

Before I take offense, what do you mean by this statement:
"If you are of that opinion , pray remain so , for you are not worth the trouble of conversion"

 

WEBDOG , the sentiment that a sound Calvinistic interpretation is not a sound biblical interpretation -- is oxymoronic :)

When Spurgeon said "the trouble of conversion" he meant that it was not worth trying to convince someone who held to the idea that commentaries should not be esteemed . He did not mean "conversion" in the salvific sense .

Of course we should not depend entirely on the works of commentators -- they are fallible men . But they play an important role in our understanding of Scripture .

 

What's the hang-up with this verse?
It simply says that to show God's love for mankind He sent His Son.
And those who believe in Jesus will not die, but will have eternal life.
No one needs to insert "the elect" into the verse, nor "free will" to make this verse work for any theological system.
It just sums up the message of the gospel.
I don't base my Calvinistic beliefs on this verse.

my 2 cents.

 

I have to admit that I read different commentaries. All of them have good thoughts. Even Matthew Henry has had one or two.

If a commentator starts trying to say that it says something that the Greek will not support, it is automatically dismissed.

Sometimes, though, two different people will correctly read a verse and interpret it differently, and it's very worthwhile to see why they're saying what they're saying. Even if they're wrong.

 

I pesonally don't have any hangups with John 3:16.

It's the Calvinists that insist Christ didn't die for the world, just the elect.

 

Amy.G. Your debt is paid not because you accepted salvation but because Jesus paid it for you. :)

john.

 

I don't recall Amy saying any such thing, johnp.

 

When did I say that?

John, don't you suppose that Jesus knew the difference between "the world" and "the elect"?

Jesus said "for God so loved the world"... (John 3:16)
Yet, at other times He used the word "elect". Matt 24:31 Mark 13:20

When He said "God so loved the world" that's what He meant. He surely would have said "For God so loved the elect" if that's what He meant.

Why don't you accept that Jesus said what He meant?

 

I'll spell it out for you webdog. If Christ died for the sins of the every man ever born then every man ever born has had his sins forgiven him as you well know. :) Doesn't take any Pelagianism on our part. :)
Was our debt of sin paid for by Christ or not? If it was then we owe God nothing because the debt has been discharged. Once a debt has been cancelled it has been cancelled. Did Jesus cancel the debt for us or not webdog? What charge can be brought against those that have their sins atoned for? Jesus died for my sins because He loved me and He gave Himself for me, Gal 2:20.

Your debt is paid not because you accepted salvation but because Jesus paid it for you. :)

By the way, I know what I owe God. :)


My answer.

john.

 

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

 

Did Jesus taste death for all men, or not johnp? You say He didn't...the author of Hebrews says He did. Who do I believe?

 

Amy.G. Your debt is paid not because you accepted salvation but because Jesus paid it for you. :)

As per my reply to webdog. :)

Of course He knows Amy.G, He intercedes for the elect and He prays for them. But He does not pray for everyone, I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. Why don't you believe He hates the world and everything in the world? (John 17:9; 1 John 2:16)

Of course He does Amy, He has my name engraved on His Palm.

JOB 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.
A redeemer is one who buys something back. My mother used to pawn her wedding ring on occassion. If she paid the money back plus a small interest the ring was hers again because she had redeemed it. It had nothing to do with the ring.
My Redeemer bought me back. It had nothing to do with me. :) Praise Him!
ISA 49:15 "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! 16 See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.

Of course He knows the difference. :)

What is this love that casts people into Hell and torments them day in day out forever and ever? Tell me if you know please I'm curious.

Fine, what's with the Hell thing then? Sounds like a psycho lover. Love doesn't fail. What is this love that casts people into Hell and torments them day in day out forever and ever? Tell me if you know please.

john.

 

Thanks for answering your question man. :) Hebrews makes you a universalist or a Pelagian then. I know you to be Pelagian with the fancy title Arminian. :) It amounts to the same thing, EX 15:2 I am my strength and my song; I have become my salvation. (The New Improved NIV)

You? :) Where's me answers man?

Did Jesus cancel the debt for us or not webdog?

What charge can be brought against those that have their sins atoned for?

john.

 

Learn what "atonement" means and come back, johnp, otherwise conversation with you is fruitless.

 

That's a great post Blammo. :) One of the best I've seen. Bet you're not using 'propitiation' properly. :) What's 'propitiation' mean?

Is it, "Praise the Lord for every man that ever lived is saved." ? Every man has had the wrath of God turned away from him.

john.

 

Where's me answers man?

Did Jesus cancel the debt for us or not webdog?

What charge can be brought against those that have their sins atoned for?


Too much to expect I expect. :) Or, in other words, I shall not hold my breath. :)


john.

 

My statment stands...:wavey:

 

Have some Cranmer webdog.

XXXI. Of the one Oblation of Christ finished upon the Cross.
The Offering of Christ once made is that perfect redemption, propitiation, and satisfaction, for all the sins of the whole world, both original and actual; and there is none other satisfaction for sin, but that alone. Wherefore the sacrifices of Masses, in the which it was commonly said, that the Priest did offer Christ for the quick and the dead, to have remission of pain or guilt, were blasphemous fables, and dangerous deceits. :)

Your statement can do whatever it wants man but your answers are awol. :) What statement by the way?

john.