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let's have some good 'ol fun

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by gekko, Nov 25, 2007.

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  1. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    heh. havn't had a debate about music in a long time.
    opinions vs. opinons.

    christian lyrics put to un-biased rhythms vs. music appealing to the flesh.

    ----

    well - what do you guys/gals think? should we start another one?
    i don't know enough to debate anywhere else. haha.

    anyone up for a bit of a 'fun-lovin' debate on music in general?
     
    #1 gekko, Nov 25, 2007
  2. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Define "un-biased rhythms"


    And all music appeals to the flesh... i like to listen to what I like to listen to because I like it....

    Just like others like what they like...

    Our likes come what we like..

    Until we get to Heaven, God has given us flesh, bones, and emotions to operate in this world...

    Should we worship to music we can't stand to listen to? Just give me some music from India if that is so...
     
    #2 tinytim, Nov 25, 2007
  3. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush New Member

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    Music and lyrics composed for entertainment should be used for entertainment. Music and lyrics composed for spiritual focus and edification should be used for that. The person who lacks the capacity to understand such distinctions is too immature to be making decisions regarding the issue.
     
    #3 Alex Quackenbush, Nov 25, 2007
  4. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Exactly... There are good Christian entertaining music that I would never use in church... It is for entertainment purposes...

    Is entertainment wrong?

    *** be careful***
     
    #4 tinytim, Nov 25, 2007
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    No, entertainment is not wrong. But it can be the wrong mindset for a worship service.

    My choir director explains it quite well. He says that the way that we "do" church has created an "entertain me" mindset.

    The congregation thinks that they are the audience and that the preacher/choir are the performers and that they come to the worship service to get something out of it. If the preacher isn't entertaining or the choir isn't entertaining, then they say "well, I didn't get anything out of that service today".

    He says that we have it all wrong. God is the audience. The members of the congregation are the "performers" (speaking in terms of bringing praise to God). The preacher and the choir are worship leaders.

    I say that everyone in the worship service is responsible for exalting the name of Jesus Christ. There are no worship service "bystanders". No passive congregational pew warmers. No overly assertive choir members or preachers with a "look-at-me" attitude.

    No one human is there to be entertained. But God is there to be exalted. And a church can use methods which do entertain (arouse) the convictions of its church members as long as everyone understands that God is the focal point of whichever worship method you feel led to participate in. And in the bible there were literally dozens of those methods.
     
    #5 Scarlett O., Nov 25, 2007
  6. Gayla

    Gayla New Member

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    Amen, Scarlett!:wavey:
     
    #6 Gayla, Nov 25, 2007
  7. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    yeah i agree with all that.

    but this i don't agree with: (taken from the cc concert topic)
    feeds the fleshly lusts? what kind of ignorance is that?
     
    #7 gekko, Nov 26, 2007
  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree that not all "Christian music" is worship - much of it is definitely more for entertaining. I'll even include some of the songs that are classified as "worship" because it's not about God but about us. We joke around using the Matt Redman song "Heart of Worship" (which we love, by the way) saying "It's all about me" - LOL! My hubby is a worship leader/pastor and he's SO careful to make sure that the worship is not about the music - or the musicians - but about God. It's tough to do because so many DO equate the "good music" with "good worship" but it's not. His goal is to be able to assist people being able to enter into worship. His prayer is that he and his team is invisible to the congregation and that they would focus on God Himself and not anything else.

    As for being down on anything that appeals to the flesh, I think that's ridiculous. Then I'd have to give up my fleece shirts (LOVE them), my flannel sheets, my yummy food, my cup of tea and even intimacy with my husband. ALL of that appeals to the flesh but that doesn't make it bad. Why would music be different?
     
    #8 annsni, Nov 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2007
  9. Timsings

    Timsings Member
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    This idea comes from Soren Kierkegaard, the Danish theologian and philosopher who lived in the first half of the 19th century. He said that many people viewed a church service like a play. The congregation was the audience, the preacher was the actor, and God was the prompter. But, Kierkegaard said it was the other way arouind. God is the audience, the congregation is the cast of actors, and the preacher is the prompter.

    The danger of church services becoming entertainment is related, I think, to the Baptist idea of the central importance of the proclamation of the gospel message. That is one of the reasons that Baptists moved the pulpit to the center of the platform. The problem is that it also put a human being in the center of everyone's attention.

    The shift to issues surrounding music is just another aspect of this. My father once said that the choir and the preacher are the only parts of the worship service that get a grade every week. If they do well, everyone knows it; if they don't, everyone knows it. The pressure to do well, even if it is self-imposed, is, potentially, the beginning of excess.

    I don't have a good answer for this, but I think part of it has to involve the education of the congregation as to what worship is and how they should prepare for worship. They should understand how the preacher, the music minister, and the other ministers plan the worship services, and what their goals are for the congregation. I think this is the beginning of taking the entertainment element out of worship services. However, I suspect some churches will lose some members if they take the entertainment out.

    Tim Reynolds
     
    #9 Timsings, Nov 26, 2007
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