Losing one's salvation

The word love in the Greek is AGAPE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE right there that explains we are in him because of who he is unconditional. our covenant is unconditional.

try doing a indepth study on Gods Unconditional Love. that may help you with this issue better. Stop trying to bring God down to " YOUR " level and humanizing him. Your doctrine is based all on PRIDE which is of the Devil

 

Which part didn't make sense?

I agree his love is unconditional.

 

put the two verses together and you will see assurance of salvation based on grace not your works. NOTHING means NOTHING ( works or yourself or demons ) can take you from God or his love. If one is seperated from God or even his LOVE he automatically goes to HELL. That is exactly what Hell is seperation, death means seperation either physically or spiritually.

You cannot be unborn again !

 

Again, I do not believe slavation is based on works.

The verse only speaks of his love, not him as well.

I agree. If the branch is cast off (separated from) the vine, it is burned.

I have previously agreed with this statement.

 

yes natters you do believe salvation is based on works you said so right here

 

You misunderstand. Consider the last sentence in that paragraph carefully, keeping in mind what I've said about the covenant.

 

I guess if you right about the covenant that may be true but you are wrong about Gods covenant with Believers. It's UNCONDITIONAL since it is ALL about GOD and NOT about us !

 

So why do we believe then?

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

I understand you think we are predestined to believe - if that's true, that explains how we believe. However, I'm asking why we believe, regardless of the how.

 

Posted by ascund

natters responds:

That's funny. It's what you've been saying over and over ever since you joined this debate.

From page 4:

From page 6:

Another one on page 6:

Here's a post on page 7:

Here's a page 9 post:

In 5 different posts, you explicitly stated that belief must be ongoing and continuous. Now, you say that you don't think continued faith is required. So, continued belief is required but continued faith isn't? What's the difference?


This exchange refers to Romans 8:38-39.

natters responds:

Um, what? Do we really have to break out these verses in their context? I guess so.

1 John 4:7-8

And, 1 John 4: 15-19

(I bolded the last verse because I, well, love it so much.)

Care to try again about how Romans 8:38-39 isn't speaking about being separated from God?

For that matter, would you care to try again and tell me that even though Christ lives inside of me, I can leave Him? I'm not talking omnipresence, either. (Which is an awesome attribute of God, BTW, but that's neither here nor there.)

Christ lives in me. He's never leaving me. So, how am I going to go anywhere and not take Him with me? It's like saying I could go somewhere and not take my heart, or not take my lungs with me.

 

ccrobinson
GOOD JOB

 

That's funny. It's what you've been saying over and over ever since you joined this debate.
</font>[/QUOTE]No, salvation depends on an intact covenant. Lack of faith does not break the covenant - if faith is restored later, it indicates the person did not go so far as to have the covenant broken.

Again, there is line and only God knows when it has been crossed. If I go through a temporary period where my faith and belief goes away, yet I later return (like the prodigal son), that indicates the covenant was not broken. If I never return, that likely indicates that the covenant was broken. Only God can say for sure when this has happened. In your looking back through the thread, perhaps you missed where I already explained this.

Did God love you before you were saved? Yes. Does that mean you were saved then? No. His love does not equal our salvation. I've explained this before as well.

In John 15:2, Jesus says the branches that are in him that does not bear fruit is taken away. The fruitless branch is cast off the vine, withers and is burned. I Jesus cast off himself as well, and burned with that branch?

So John 15:2 is wrong?

 

John 15 isn't talking about HELL ( seperation ) like you think it does. It's talking about rewards

 

Greetings natters.

You obviously do not understand God's covenant.

Q1: How can the covenant be broken?

Q2: To which of the seven clauses do you appeal to have a legal basis for losing one's salvation?

Q3: Which of the clauses refers to human responsibilities?

You need something legal upon which to base your fraudulent claims. Thank God - you have none. Your inability to provide biblical answers to the above 3 questions shows the worth of your human-centered system.

Lloyd

 

Hey natters

Here is my take on covenants. Let me answer my own questions for you.

A1: Covenants are everlasting (Gen 17:7, 13, 19; 2 Sam 23:5; 1 Ch 16:17; Psa 105:10; Isa 55:3, 61:8; Jer 32:40; Ezek 16:60, 37:26 AND HEB 13:20. Even when we humans do not do the commands of the NT covenant, the NT covenant cannot be broken.

A2: None of the seven clauses refer to dire consequences for disobedience. (I bet you don't even know where to look for these clauses! Try to surprise me!).

A3: None of the seven clauses has any pronoun referring to human responsibilities. All seven clauses verify God's responsibilities for covenantal faithfulness. Your denial of OSAS is a blatant denial of God and His faithfulness.

OSAS is biblical!
God's everlasting covenant guarantees it!
Lloyd

 

natters, you have not answered my first question from my most recent post. I showed you 5 posts where you said that ongoing, continuous belief is required for salvation, and then you told ascund that continued faith isn't required.

Now, you say that if faith is restored later, which implies that faith was abandoned, it indicates the covenant wasn't broken. But you said that continuous belief was required. I don't know how to separate belief and faith, so let me ask again. What's the difference between belief and faith?

I asked:

natters responds:

Bzzt. Try again. Is Romans 8:38-39 written to Christian or non-Christians? Romans 8:38-39 was written to Christians and Paul is telling them that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Since Romans 8:38-39 was written to Christians, please tell me how it isn't speaking of being separated from God?

I wrote:

natters responds:

Absurd, isn't it? If John 15:2 speaks of salvation, this must mean that Jesus Christ will leave the Christian. You can't escape this conclusion. It also means that you are contradicting yourself again.

From page 6:

Which is it? Either Christ is going to leave us or He isn't. If Christ isn't going to leave us, he certainly isn't going to be cast into the fire, which obviously means that John 15:2 isn't speaking of salvation.

Nope, only your interpretation.

How would I know if I'm saved if only God knows? Anybody can say the words that they're saved and they're no more saved than my wife's cat is.

But, the Spirit of God continually reminds me that I'm a child of God.

See Romans 8:16.

God knows that, on my own, I could and would lose faith and I wouldn't know that I'm saved. I would agree that the Christian can quench the Spirit enough so that they can't hear the Spirit testify, but that doesn't mean their salvation is lost.

 

Sigh. I'm tired of explaining things over and over, being misunderstood and/or having only half of my comments taken into account, and answering others' questions but having many of my questions ignored. I honestly believe that by answering the last few posts, it would just be repeating more of the same.

I realize that there are several of you on this thread that feel I haven't dealt adequately with some of your points, but hopefully there are others who get what I am saying and at least understand the non-osas position a bit better.

Until next time. ;)

 

You can't argue with truth Natters, TRUTH will always prevail. There are hundreds of verses that point to assurance of salvation and only a few that don't. The whole NT is about Love, Mercy, Grace, Forgiveness and being reconciled to God through Jesus. All of which God did and not us. How can you UNDO anything that God has DONE ?

You CAN'T and that is where you error lies in the fact that you think YOU can.

 

"what God hath joined together, let no man put assunder" - sound familiar? ;)