ME (Millennial Exclusion) Posts

Aha! You CAN discriminate between warnings!! Are you saying that I use them indiscriminately but you don't???

More to the point was Heb 10:27 and 3:11-14, James, but thanks for using your head on that one. :praying:

skypair

 

Surely you jest.

 

Why would you warn a Christian about anything? What do we have to worry about?

 

Rufus ---- did you read the words "exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin?" You don't realize that YOU or Lacy could be or are excluded from the kingdom right now, do you? That you risk the "wrath of God as the children of disobedience" even if you are saved -- but only in this life. You do not fear that any sin is unto death today, do you?

And you apparently don't understand the positive aspect of my warning --- God's rest, do you? You are "fighting battles" that don't need to be fought to hold "ground" that God did not promise you.

skypair

 

And if you get a millstone placed around your neck and cast into the sea, this is bad? And God has something worse? But it is only in this life that we have to worry about it?

 

You would appear to have answered my question with four questions. Let me try again. Why do you feel compelled to warn a Christian about anything? Why should a Christian care about any warning in the Bible when we're all going to get a pat on the head and a "well-done, good and faithful servant" regardless of the things done in our bodies?

 

Yes, the earth actually means Mars, or maybe Venus - lol.

Well, it is certainly open to interpretation - Of course, it is possible that it is referring to a reign in an earthly millenial kingdom, IF the earthly reign (on this earth) by Christ is to be taken literally. (and that's a big IF) Or, it could mean that since we are now priests and co-heirs with Christ we even now "reign" in our earthly existence. Or perhaps it could mean we will reign in the new earth that Peter (2nd Peter 3:13) and Paul (Romans 8:21-21) speak of.

Les

 

The passage in 1 Cor. just says that Jesus hands the Kingdom over to the Father, not that it ends. Just because we change presidents routinely doesn't mean the USA ends.

Peter writes about the eternal (everlasting) Kingdom in 2 Peter 2:11. Doesn't sound like a temporary 1000 year deal to me.

Les

 

You were rebutting my warning with a notion at the other end of the spectrum, rufus. "Chastisement," "wrath," etc. where the believer is concerned, is limited to this world, the flesh, this kingdom. God does NOT give us another corruptible body in which to punish us.

And the flesh being perished and the body and spirit "new," nothing exists that does not please Him.

Let me ask you ---- are you going to punish your kids for the rest of their lives for mistakes they made as children???

Let me preempt your answer --- it you do, you don't love them.

skypair

 

I do not see Biblical evidence of chastisement being limited to this world. Nor, do I see observable evidence of Christians in rebellion always being chastised in this world. However, I do believe in a just God and I do believe He will recompense justly.

If they repent of their behavior, I will have no need. If they continue in rebellion, they will be chastised until they do.

If I allow them to behave in a rebellious fashion, then I don't love them.

"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." - Proverbs 13:24​

 

I'm not quite sure why you wish to make such a hard-line literal distinction between Christ's death and His shed blood. His death was brought about as a result of His blood being shed (both from the torture He endured and the nails on the cross). He did not just drop dead. His shed blood and His death go hand in hand.

Likewise, I'm not sure what you are driving at with your reference to the Book of Genesis, the sacrificial system, and when blood is first mentioned. The Word is clear Christ is the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the earth (Rev. 13:8). Additionally, the entire OT sacrificial system (the blood atonement for sin) serves as a graphic illustration pointing to Christ's final and ultimate once for all sacrifice for the whole of God's creation. This thread is not about who is/is not (or will be/will not be) saved and how the salvation process works. The Question in the Title of the OP asks, "Do unbelievers go to hell?" The answer to that question clearly is yes that is what the Bible says in multiple places.

Regarding your quotes from 2 Cor. and Matt., I agree completely with the fine distinction you have drawn. I can do so based upon the fact that Christ speaking in Matt. could make the distinction and use the word many because as all knowing God He was/is well aware that not all people will accept His gracious gift of salvation through faith (or if you prefer a more Calvinistic phrasing: He foreknew that He had not predestined all for salvation). However, this is not a CvsA thread and let's not turn it into one.

 

1,000 years hold no equivilance to "the rest of their lives."

Do you believe that 1,000 years is all we can possibly obtain with the Lord? Or is there a new heaven and new earth coming where we will have eternity?

When in TRUE comparison.... if you punish your children for more than 10 seconds.... when fractioned out is much longer than any unfaithful believer will be punished. Nevertheless, I want to please my Father.

 

Yeah? And do you notice that a thief never "finds" a cop to arrest him??

Oh, so you never forgive them? Wow! I'm glad I'm not your kid!

You're getting the whole wrong idea about this, aren't you. They have a "new life" when they grow up. There is absolutely NO POINT in you trying to "spank" them anymore! Either you're gonna live with what they turned out to be or you're gonna unforgivingly get as far from them as you can. Same with God -- it's either eternal "heaven" or eternal "hell." When earthly life is past, "childhood" is over. If you are not disposed to trusting God in this life, you never will be.

skypair

 

And what is all the training for? Does God just have to live with what we turned out to be? No, He is going to have a kingdom and a bride without spot or blemish. God forgives all our sins through Jesus, but that doesn't mean He has to accept us 'just as we am'. We change in this life, or we don't get to take part in that kingdom. On the last day, all is forgiven and we all go into eternity together. Not eternal punishment, but temporal.

 

Nor indeed, this life to eternity. You immediately show that you have not gotten the equivalencies right yet. This life is "childhood;" the next (after death) "adulthood."

Apparently you missed this .... Unpaid for sin brings ETERNAL separation from God. If you come to the judgment seat with sins (or, really, "unbelief") on your account, you're not going to 1000 years of "sitting in the corner." There is no more "purgation" of sins following death. Anyone who says there is lives in a state of UNBELIEF IN CHRIST!! They are still trying to find some way that they can pay or that those they don't like can pay for the wrongs they've done.

How do you like this gospel -- "Christ paid for your sins, but don't sin anymore or you'll be paying for them?" It's like saying "Christ is dead but not risen -- God wouldn't accept His sacrifice for you."

And why just 1000 years? Even Catholics don't claim to know how long their purgation lasts. What makes you think that God can straighted someone out in 1000 years that He hasn't been able to straighten out in 70? Or maybe, like the BIBLE says, He can straighten them out in about 1/2 a minute when their "wood, hay, and stubble" is consumed but they themselves are saved so as by fire!

If you wanted to please your Father (rather than your father), you would not impugn His Sacrifice and His Spirit, young man! And there are no unfaithful believers, only unbelieving faithful. Like the man with the demon possessed son, we can only say "I believe! Help Thou my unbelief!"

skypair

 

*bump*

Let's continue.

 

How many times do we change in this life in order to inherit that kingdom, James?? Are we born again and again and again and again and ...? Is that what Jesus told YOU?

I would so much as say that if you haven't seen AND ENTERED this kingdom for which Jesus said we must be born again, then you haven't been born again even once. Wouldn't you agree? Or do you not agree with Jesus?

Lames, you are confusing OT kingdom with NT. Pay attention: The OT are either qualified or disqualified for the kingdom -- the MK. They will either be resurrected into it or cast into hell.

The church is living in its MK right now. So you can say MK is figurative or spiritual in our sense and literal in the OT sense. At the end of OUR MK -- the rapture -- we go to our eternal kingdom, NEW JERUSALEM (the place prepared, John 14:1-4). It is this "kingdom" that you either have not seen and entered or refuse to recognize in all our conversations. I hate being on opposing sides with you cause you have good intentions but your theology wreaks of Thyatira!

skypair

 

Thyatira?

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Is that me? Hmmm.

But what did the Lord say to Thyatira?

Revelation 2:25-26
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Titus 2:12-13
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;

Notice that our hope hasn't come yet, neither has Christ. We are to live soberly, righteously and godly, looking for that hope and His glorious appearing.

2 Timothy 4:1
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

His appearing and His kingdom. This isn't it.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

While I read threads debate on Millennial Exclusion.

lbaker is right, he saying, a thousand years of Revelation 20 is symbolic.

Nowhere in Bible saying that 'kingdom of God/heaven' shall be lasted for only a thousand years. It teaches us, kingdom of God is an eternal find in Daniel 7:14 - "And there was given his dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall NOT pass away, and his kingdom that which shall NOT be destroyed."

Also, in Daniel 7:27 says, "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is AN EVERLASTING KINGDOM, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."

Many Christians saying that 'kingdom of God' is a temporary and it is for the Jews of Israel during millennial.

Where did they get the idea come from? Their belief is unbiblical.

John 3:3,5 telling us very clear, we must be born again or cannot enter the kingdom of God, means we must be born again with repentance and believing in Christ, shall have eternal life. Or, if we do not believing in Christ, shall not have eternal life, but go away into everlasting fire.

Gal. 5:19-21 warn us, if anyone do practical wicked life, shall not enter the kingdom of God, means, if anyone is remain in sins, shall not have eternal life, go away into the everlasting fire.

ME do seeing Matt. 25:14-30 is clearly speak toward us as servants if we do not use talent, shall be cast away in the outer darkness.

I agree with them.

But, nowhere in Bible telling us that, the outer darkness is a temporary. There is none promise for a person who once cast away into the outer darkness shall be finally be released out of it beyond the judgment day.

There is no purgatory in the Bible. It is a false doctrine.

Hell is an appointment place for all people awaits for the coming of judgment day, SO, hell shall be cast away into the lake of fire.

Heb. 9:27 tells us, we are all appointed ONCE to die after the judgment. There is no promise for a person, who is already in hell after death, shall be released out of it and go enter into everlasting life.

I never find anywhere passage or verse in Bible telling us that a unfaithful servant shall be finally being released out of hell and send unfaithful servant into eternal life with Christ.

Matt. 25:30 doesn't sound like purgatory to me. It tells us clear, once a unfaithful servant is cast away into the outer darkness, it is the final destiny for unfaithful servant is an everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

ME teaching is actual mixed with unconditional and conditional of salvation. cannot do that. Bible teaching us there is ONLY conditional with warnings.

Nearly all ME teaching unconditional security salvation same as what baptists teaching. Yet, ME teaching that a lazy Christian shall be cast away into hell, that is much conflict with the teaching of salvation doctrine.

ME have serious problems with passages in the Bible on conditionals.

Even, many baptists who hold unconditional security salvation teaching have serious problems with Bible.

I was a formerly securist as baptist. I thought security doctrine is a truth and sound doctinr. But, later, I found there is man-making doctrine.

Because many Christians dislike many passages such as Matt. 25:30 telling the truth hurt them.

That why many are itching their ears from the truth - 2 Tim. 4:3-4.

I consider that, unconditional security salvation teaching is a comfortable and positive to Christians today. Sorry to saying it.

Bible never giving us a rosebed of promise.

Acts 14:22 telling us, we must go through much suffer into the kingdom.

Once we enter into the narrow road(Matt. 7:14) then we are facing hardship life. Most of us easy give up and quit back to the world again, many shall be end up in their destrudction - everlasting fire-Matt. 7:13.

Entering the kingdom of God is not easy. Being taking the cross cost our life to obey Christ.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

So . . .anybody give any thought to the OP?