Paul Washer: Don’t fear for murderers on Judgment Day, fear for these pastors

Are you sure you want to use that verse? The context is not elect verses non elect. The context is jew verses Gentile. The word translated as ordained can also be used as disposed. The gospel, in that passage, was rejected by the unbelieving Jews and so Paul turns to those who were disposed to hear it which were the Gentiles. Context is king.

 

What you are calling "dance around the issue" is gaining a proper understanding of the context. It is necessary for proper exegesis. Isolating verses works for reformed folks, but it never leads to proper understanding of the text as intended by the author.

 

Those who were ordained believed. Not those who believed were then ordained. You have the sequence backwards Brother.

 

Yet reformed folks ignore the order in John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

The order layed out in this passage:

1. receive
2. believe
3. saved

Anyway what is the context of that passage. Is election even in view? Nope it is Jew verses Gentile not elect verses non elect.

 

Brother, that passage in John 1:12,13 couldn't be any clearer if they tried to make it clearer, but you are continually rewriting the narrative to fit you ideologies. Just like you rewrote John 6:37-45.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:12-13]

Now, those who received Him, those who believed in Him, who are they? Those who were born of God. That's as clear as a bell. The birth by the Spirit is an absolute must before anyone will receive Him. They have to be quickened, and in this divine quickening, a new heart and spirit are given to them. Their old heart was as hard as a stone, could not love Him, could not receive the seed, the word of God.

It just like in 1 John 4:7, when it says those that love God were born of Him. The birth by the Spirit of God is an absolute must, and must come before they can love Him, believe in Him and receive Him.

 

Ok they were born of God. After they received and believed. You were insistent on an order laid out in scripture in the other passage but ignore it here. What it does say:

1. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
2. to those who believe in His name,...He gave the right to become children of God
3. who were born...of God
4. not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man

This book was written to Jews. The primary issue they needed to get past to understand the gospel was that they did not automatically receive salvation just because they were children of Abraham. It is why Jesus addressed this in chapter 3. Jews thought they automatically were children of God just because they were Jews. Jesus over and over again refuted this and here John, after three years with Jesus, did the same thing. Again context is King.

The problem with reformed theology is specific passages have to be isolated from the over all context in order for the presuppositions to work. Context is King.

 

Yep. Agreed! He has turned John 1:12,13 on its head. Confused Confused

Not to hijack the thread, but where do particular and reformed Baptists differ? Don't both hold to the TULIP?

 

And personal attacks like this is why people have quit discussing things with cals/reformed/particular or whatever flavor of the same thing you wish to be.

And yes this is a personal attack apparently admins and owners get away with these around here now.

 

Uh no I did not edit what you wrote an absurd accusation. I left the first sentence in original order. What did happen here is you could no longer support your argument so you abandoned it and resorted to a personal attack.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with either title being applied to me. But I can see your stance and why you have taken it.

 

He didn't edit it. He did not quote all of your post, but he didn't edit it.

 

Good luck with that.