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Specify which Point you disavow

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Van, Nov 2, 2022.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Salty posted:

    There is nothing wrong with labels.
    Keep in mind - there are 5 points:
    1) Total Depravity
    2) Unconditional Election
    3) Limited atonement
    4) Irresistible grace
    5) Perseverance of the Saints

    So which side are you on?
    Please give a quick thought on each item. ​
    Shortly thereafter his thread was closed because posters did not address the question. They waxed on about how these points were valid or invalid.

    Can we return to the actual question. Do our posters have sufficient integrity to specifiy which points they disavow.

    Here is my answer. I disavow the T, the U, the L and the I. I interpret point 5, the P to embrace "once saved, always saved" which I avow, but I also believe a "Saint" set apart within Christ can be sidetracked such that he or she earns no rewards with their ministry.
     
    #1 Van, Nov 2, 2022
  2. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    T- We have a basic sinful nature and everything about us, even our wills and minds, has been affected.
    U- God has always known everything and everyone is not saved so he chose who this would be before any were born. So there were not things in us he looked at first.
    L- If you believe that when sins are "atoned" for they really are forgiven then logically you have to believe that either everyone eventually gets saved or it is limited. I do not believe that this is the primary reason someone does not get saved - because God purposed to keep them out by limiting the atonement.
    I- If total depravity is true then we will not choose wisely. If that were true then God could have just given his teaching and at least some of us would be OK. We have seen in history how that went.
    P- This is easy if you believe the other points.
    So, 4 points, even the L if you use backward logic. I don't believe the L if you mean that that is the reason someone is lost - because they were left out of the atonement. It's more a matter of God's primary purpose and will that I hesitate on the L.

    Van. Your answer sounds a lot like John R. Rice's explanation, who I respect a lot.
     
    #2 DaveXR650, Nov 2, 2022
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It depends how questions are worded whether a person chooses to answer said question or questions.

    In the other thread,
    As to disavowing any point of the TULIP. I disavow unconditonal election.
     
    #3 37818, Nov 2, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...you should've stopped there instead of "waxing on about how these points were valid or invalid".
     
    #4 kyredneck, Nov 2, 2022
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I disavow none, just want to tweak a couple.
     
    #5 kyredneck, Nov 2, 2022
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