The Biblical Basis of Catholic Distinctives

I’m glad mate.

This is so important a thing to get across, I can’t tell you how important it is to me.

The Eucharist is Jesus Himself.

Jesus established the Eucharist so that we, every generation could enter Covenant Communion by Faith personally with Jesus.
This is the most personal relationship a man can have with Jesus, this is Covenant Communion with Jesus, The New and Everlasting Covenant.

“ He who eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood, abides in Me and I in him.”

“ Happy those who do not see me, yet still believe. “

By Faith and in the spirit, Jesus is not so well hidden from us, humble, loving, goodness itself born and placed in a manger, a feeding trough for sheep.
Only in The Son is Life.

By eating, death came into the world, so by eating, Life returns to the world.

“ The Bread that I shall give is my Flesh for the Life of the world “

The sacrifice is not just a historical event to be merely remembered, the Sacrifice Itself must be eaten.

Whoever eats this bread will live forever.

“ So he who eats me, will live because of me “

Only by Faith can a man eat the Sacrifice on the table prepared for him.

It is not so much how big a man’s understanding of Jesus is, rather it is how small and humble Jesus is prepared to make Himself for Love of us. This is the Great Wonder.

 

I believe you are simply wrong that Christians enter into a covenant relationship with God by the Lord’s Supper.

We enter into that relationship by faith in Jesus Christ: Who He is and what He has done.

According to your belief, the relationship in obtained by the work (eat the flesh, drink the blood) and is then maintained by the same work

Of course, it is the Catholic Church that grants access to that work. The priest says the magic words that transform the bread and wine into literal flesh and blood (even though it still looks and taste like bread and wine). It is the priest that deliver this “salvation” to the congregants.

It is one of the most important aspects of Jesus’s ministry to understand and I truly hope you get it. You don’t need the church, or a priest, to be saved. You don’t need any work (including Lord’s Supper) to obtain and maintain a covenant relationship with God.

The only thing you need is faith in Christ alone: Who He is and what He did. You will then be indwelt by God Holy Spirit and will never lose that right relationship with God.

peace to you

 

Anti-Catholics fail to note the obvious change in subject from Jesus' presence as "the bread of life" to "munching on" (Greek: "trogo") His flesh and drinking His blood in 6:53-58. Indeed, nowhere does Jesus imply that we can EAT the "bread of life."
The Bible condemns drinking blood and this concept is never applied to our relationship with Christ apart from the Eucharist.
The use of "trogo" (= "munch on") implies literal bread consumption. Jesus does nothing to calm His disciples' fears that He is speaking literally because He is implying His Real Presence in this sacramental act.

Critics of this Eucharistic perspective have no answer for either the appropriate Passover setting (John 6:4) of this Eucharistic teaching and the obvious fact that it supplants the Institution of Communion at the Last Supper, which John omits in deference to the Eucharistic discussion in 6:53-58.

 

[2] THE BIBLICAL INSPIRATION FOR THE USE OF HOLY WATER:

The underlying principles for Catholic sprinkling with Holy Water are the various uses of sacred water in God's Word to bless, purify, heal, or establish innocence. The Apostolic Constitutions (c. 400 AD) trace the priestly use of Holy Water to the Apostle Matthew and thus attests the great antiquity of the Church's use of Holy Water. The first biblical reference to "Holy Water" can be found in Num. 5:16-19. Drinking it will exonorate the innocent and bring curse on the guilty. On certain occasions, bathing in ritual water can purify someone and refusing to use this water retains guilt (e. g. Lev. 17:15-16). Blessed water can unleash healing power. Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy (2 Kings 5:10, 14). In the NT the Pool of Bethzatha has healing efficacy when it is stirred up (John 5:7). Jesus recognizes the healing power of blessed water by using spittle to heal the blind and the dead (John 9:6-7). But the blind man in John 9:6-7 also needs to wash in the blessed waters of the Pool of Siloam to compete his healing.

My next planned post will testify to modern examples of the various types of spiritual power of holy water.

 

First: Jesus calmed His disciples, that remained, in John 6 when He told them, in immediate context, “the flesh profits nothing” and “The words I speak are spirit and life” He clearly did not intend His words to be taken literally. That the Catholic Church has developed extensive doctrine and rituals from this passage is extra biblical at best.

Second: Your claim that John 6 supplants the institution of the Lord’s Supper puts the Apostle John at odds with the Apostle Paul. There is no record in scripture of the early church accepting the “Eucharist teaching” or practicing it.

There is no record in scripture of anyone uttering words in a ritual to transform the bread and wine into flesh and blood”

To claim critics of the Catholic Eucharist do not have an answer is not based in reality.

peace to you

 

When we eat Jesus Flesh and drink His Blood, we abide in Him and He in us. This is the Covenant exchange of persons, two become one.

The Catholic Church is Apostolic, it has maintained the Eucharistic Covenant from the time of the Apostles and Christ.

The priest speaks Jesus words, and The Holy Spirit transforms the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus.

As Jesus said to the Apostle Peter, “ Feed my sheep “. That is the job of the Apostolic shepherds Jesus appointed.

Jesus didn’t build a Church and Apostolic priesthood for people to reject it. Look at the Church in scripture, no one was a rogue individualist. “ If he refuses to listen, even to the Church, let him be to you as a gentile or a tax collector. “

We need to do as Jesus commanded, this includes the works He commanded. Why call Him Lord, and do not the things He says?

“ If you love me, you will keep my commandments. “

So we eat His Body and drink His Blood as He says.

Many refuse to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood.

They don’t believe His words, and don’t do as He says.

Yes, you need Faith, Faith in Jesus words, and to do all He says.

Honestly, why call Him, Lord, and don’t do what He says? What kind of Lordship is that?

Believe His words, and do as He says.

 

First point, this quote:

This appears to claim the Eucharist “supplanted” the institution of communion at the last supper.

Additionally, the claim the Eucharist ritual was practiced by the Apostles and the early church has absolutely no biblical support, and contrary is Paul’s instructions concerning the memorial supper of bread and wine thst proclaims the Lord’s death tell He comes.

Since Jesus’s teaching on the manna from heaven occurs before the upper room Last Supper, it is simply not accurate to claim the first “supplanted” the second.

Second: please show me from scripture where Jesus spoke the words the priest uses in the Eucharist ritual?

I understand what you believe. I don’t believe it is supported by scripture.

peace to you

 

The moment of Consecration happens when the priest takes the bread and Cup and says Jesus words in Scripture.

“ This is my Body “, and “ This is the Cup of my Blood “.





It is not good to call Jesus words “ magic “, Jesus words are Spirit and Life, Supernatural in origin and in nature, not preternatural.

The Holy Spirit transforms the bread and wine into Jesus Body and Blood, so we can eat His Flesh and drink His Blood as He said.

This is the heart of the Christian Faith, Jesus Himself in Covenant Communion.

Jesus gives Himself to us personally and completely in Covenant, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. And we give ourselves completely to Him.

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him. “

 

canadyjd: "Second: Your claim that John 6 supplants the institution of the Lord’s Supper puts the Apostle John at odds with the Apostle Paul."

Your remark betrays your failure to get the significance of John's omission of the Institution of Communion at the Last Supper in chap. 13. Scholars agree that John omits it precisely because he has already discussed the meaning (Real Presence) of the Eucharist in 6:53-58. In that sense, 6:53-58 supplants the report of the institution of the Eucharist which would otherwise be located in chap. 13.

Paul quotes Jesus' Eucharistic words, "This IS my body," not 'this SYMBOLIZES my body." Partaking of the Eucharist means more than memorializing Jesus' death; it means actually SHARING in His crucified body and blood:

"The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we eat, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 10:16-17)?"

Real Presence in the Communion elements means that it is not enough to believe the bread symbolizes Christ's body; one must actually "discern the body" during consumption (11:28). Real Presence can also mean sickness and death for "unworthy" participation in this ritual that makes one "answerable for the body and blood of Christ (11:27, 30)."

canadyjd: "First: Jesus calmed His disciples, that remained, in John 6 when He told them, in immediate context, “the flesh profits nothing” and “The words I speak are spirit and life” He clearly did not intend His words to be taken literally. That the Catholic Church has developed extensive doctrine and rituals from this passage is extra biblical at best."

You miss Jesus' point in 6;62-63: His words can become "spirit and life" after His ascension when He can be present in the bread and wine through His Spirit.
And you fatally ignore the fact that "many of His disciples" desert Him and He says nothing to prevent this by disabusing them of His Real Presence in the Eucharistic act.

 

Yes

 

What are the all the words spoken during the entire ceremony of the eucharist?

peace to you

 

What are the all the words spoken during the entire ceremony of the eucharist?

peace to you

 

The Eucharistic Liturgy

Priest

Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation,
for through your goodness we have received the bread we offer you:
fruit of the earth and work of human hands,
it will become for us the bread of life.

All

Blessed be God for ever.

Priest

By the mystery of this water and wine
may we come to share in the divinity of Christ
who humbled himself to share in our humanity.

Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation,
for through your goodness we have received
the wine we offer you:
fruit of the vine and work of human hands,
it will become our spiritual drink.

All

Blessed be God for ever.

With humble spirit and contrite heart
may we be accepted by you, O Lord,
and may our sacrifice in your sight this day
be pleasing to you, Lord God.

Priest

Pray, brothers and sisters,
that my sacrifice and yours
may be acceptable to God,
the almighty Father.

All Stand

All

May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands
for the praise and glory of his name,
for our good
and the good of all his holy Church.


PRAYER OVER THE OFFERINGS
Priest

God our Creator,
may this bread and wine we offer
as a sign of our love and worship
lead us to salvation.

Grant this through Christ our Lord.

All

Amen.


THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER


EUCHARISTIC PRAYER II

Priest

The Lord be with you.

All

And with your spirit.

Priest

Lift up your hearts.

All

We lift them up to the Lord.

Priest

Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.

All

It is right and just.

Priest

It is truly right and just,
our duty and our salvation,
always and everywhere to give you thanks,
Lord, holy Father, almighty and eternal God,
through Christ our Lord.

For through his Paschal Mystery,
he accomplished the marvellous deed,
by which he has freed us
from the yoke of sin and death,
summoning us to the glory of being now called
a chosen race, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation, a people for your own possession,
to proclaim everywhere your mighty works,
for you have called us out of darkness
into your own wonderful light.

And so, with Angels and Archangels,
with Thrones and Dominions,
and with all the hosts and Powers of heaven,
we sing the hymn of your glory,
as without end we acclaim:

All

Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he
who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.



All Kneel

Priest

You are indeed Holy, O Lord,
the fount of all holiness.

Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray,
by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall,

so that they may become for us
the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At the time he was betrayed
and entered willingly into his Passion,

he took bread and, giving thanks, broke it,
and gave it to his disciples, saying:

take this, all of you, and eat of it,
for this is my body,
which will be given up for you.

In a similar way, when supper was ended,

he took the chalice
and, once more giving thanks,
he gave it to his disciples, saying:

take this, all of you, and drink from it,
for this is the chalice of my blood,
the Blood of the new and eternal covenant,
which will be poured out for you and for many
for the forgiveness of sins.

Do this in memory of me.

Priest

The mystery of faith.

All

When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup,
we proclaim your Death, O Lord,
until you come again.

Priest

Therefore, as we celebrate
the memorial of his Death and Resurrection,
we offer you, Lord,
the Bread of life and the Chalice of salvation,
giving thanks that you have held us worthy
to be in your presence and minister to you.

Humbly we pray
that, partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ,
we may be gathered into one by the Holy Spirit.

Remember, Lord, your Church,
spread throughout the world,
and bring her to the fullness of charity,
together with Benedictour Pope
and Denis our Bishop and all the clergy.

Remember also our brothers and sisters
who have fallen asleep in the hope of the resurrection,
and all who have died in your mercy:
welcome them into the light of your face.
Have mercy on us all, we pray,
that with the Blessed Virgin Mary,
Mother of God,
with the blessed Apostles,
and all the Saints who have pleased you throughout the ages,
we may merit to be coheirs to eternal life,
and may praise and glorify you
through your Son, Jesus Christ.

Through him, and with him, and in him,
O God, almighty Father,
in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
all glory and honour is yours,
for ever and ever.

All

Amen.


THE COMMUNION RITE


All Stand

Priest

At the Saviour’s command
and formed by divine teaching,
we dare to say:

All

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Priest

Deliver us, Lord, we pray, from every evil,
graciously grant peace in our days,
that, by the help of your mercy,
we may be always free from sin
and safe from all distress,
as we await the blessed hope
and the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

All

For the kingdom,
the power and the glory are yours
now and for ever.

Priest

Lord Jesus Christ,
who said to your Apostles:
Peace I leave you, my peace I give you;
look not on our sins,
but on the faith of your Church,
and graciously grant her peace and unity
in accordance with your will.

Who live and reign for ever and ever.

All

Amen.

Priest

The peace of the Lord be with you always.

All

And with your spirit.

Priest

Let us offer each other the sign of peace.

All

Lamb of God,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us.
Lamb of God,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us.
Lamb of God,
you take away the sins of the world,
grant us peace.


All Kneel
Priest

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God,
who, by the will of the Father
and the work of the Holy Spirit,
through your Death gave life to the world,
free me by this, your most holy Body and Blood,
from all my sins and from every evil;
keep me always faithful to your commandments,
and never let me be parted from you.

Behold the Lamb of God,
behold him who takes away the sins of the world.
Blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb.

All

Lord, I am not worthy
that you should enter under my roof,
but only say the word
and my soul shall be healed.


COMMUNION ANTIPHON
All

I, the Lord, am with you always, until the end of the world.

Priest

The Body of Christ.

All

Amen.


PRAYER AFTER COMMUNION
Priest

All Stand

Let us pray.
God of salvation,
may this sacrament which strengthens us
here on earth
bring us to eternal life.

We ask this in the name of Jesus the Lord.

 

Thanks for sharing. I am certain it is quite reverent.

Does the priest speak any words in Latin during the ceremony?

peace to you

 

No, but in Latin the words mean the same thing.

Generally the Scripture readings, Homily and Eucharistic Liturgy are spoken in the local language.

 

Generally the Mass is structured like this.

Readings.

Old Testament. Read by Parishioner

New Testament. Read by Parishioner

Gospel. Read by the Priest.

Homily : Taught by the Priest on the readings and Gospel of that day.

Then the “Worship” part of Mass is the Eucharistic Liturgy.

Final Blessing.

 

Thanks for all the info.

I disagree, but appreciate your willingness to civil debate on the issue.

May God bless you

peace to you

 

Generally the Mass is structured like this.

Part 1:

Readings.

Old Testament. Read by Parishioner

New Testament. Read by Parishioner

Gospel. Read by the Priest.

Homily : Taught by the Priest on the readings and Gospel of that day.

Prayers and petitions.


Part Two:

Then the most important part, the “Worship” part of Mass is the Eucharistic Liturgy.
Jesus in the Eucharist is the full focus.

We see this two part structure with Justin Martyr. AD100 -165.

“But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation.

Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.

And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge’noito [so be it].

And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.

For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.”

Catechumens only stayed for the first part of Mass and then left before the Eucharistic Liturgy.
But after they were baptised, they could take part in the Eucharistic Liturgy and receive Jesus Body and Blood in The Eucharist.

 

I don't personally believe in technical Transubstantiation which was originally based on Thomistic Aristotelian principles. But I consider it an upgrade over a merely symbolic interpretation of the Communion elements because it facilitates the intimate connection with the Risen Lord that Jesus and Paul intended Communion to accomplish.

Now can we please move on to the biblical basis of other Catholic distinctives?

[2] THE BIBLICAL INSPIRATION FOR THE USE OF HOLY WATER:

The underlying principles for Catholic sprinkling with Holy Water are the various uses of sacred water in God's Word to bless, purify, heal, or establish innocence. The Apostolic Constitutions (c. 400 AD) trace the priestly use of Holy Water to the Apostle Matthew and thus attests the great antiquity of the Church's use of Holy Water. The first biblical reference to "Holy Water" can be found in Num. 5:16-19. Drinking it will exonorate the innocent and bring curse on the guilty. On certain occasions, bathing in ritual water can purify someone and refusing to use this water retains guilt (e. g. Lev. 17:15-16). Blessed water can unleash healing power. Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy (2 Kings 5:10, 14). In the NT the Pool of Bethzatha has healing efficacy when it is stirred up (John 5:7). Jesus recognizes the healing power of blessed water by using spittle to heal the blind and the dead (John 9:6-7). But the blind man in John 9:6-7 also needs to wash in the blessed waters of the Pool of Siloam to compete his healing.

My next planned post will testify to modern examples of the various types of spiritual power of holy water.

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