The Parenthesis Church

....and you stand with the majority on this Amy, of course:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=73340&highlight=bound

 

We are presently living in the Kingdom because God's Word says we are. You can watch the news all you want, but that will not improve your insight at all into what the Kingdom actually is, the nature of it. There are several passages that can be adduced to show that Christ is reigning in His kingdom now.

Neither do I buy into the already/not yet framework. I used to believe in it - right up until the very last seeming Scriptural support for the doctrine was kicked out from under my previous paradigm.

The devil - the adversary - of I Peter has had his last meal almost 2000 years ago. He has since, according to Revelation, been bound, no longer able to deceive the nations. Christ, in the Apocalyptic vision, binds Satan. But, according to Gospel usage, it is also correct to say that Christians bound him, as they went throughout the Empire, using their Christ-given keys of authority.

I underlined a part in Peter's verse because the verse is almost always quoted as a snippet, as if the emphasis was on curtailment of power, rather than cessation of doctrinal and spiritual opposition. It is because of this binding that the Gospel leaven was able to permeate the entire dough of the Roman Empire.

The background of the binding of Satan passage - almost totally neglected today - is the stubborn, blind resistance of apostate Jews to the preaching of Christ's Kingdom.

So, yes, we are in His Kingdom. Have been for centuries. But it is according to Scripture, not according to the glitzy charts, posters, and imaginative movies.

 

Amy. G,

What was the world like before the coming of Jesus Christ? What was the world like before Jesus Christ bound the strong man, Satan? We are unable to imagine what a world was like before the coming of Jesus Christ and the spread of the Gospel!

Matthew 12:24-30
24. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Now did Jesus Christ say He bound Satan or not. Then there is this:

Hebrews 2:14, 15
14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

1 Peter 3:22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The first six versed of Revelation 20 are simply a recapitulation of events, brief to be sure, between the two comings of Jesus Christ!

 

Tom

You and I will disagree on the Second Coming but your response to Amy. G in the above post is well said!

 

Just what evidence do you have that the 1st coming of Jesus Christ had no affect on conditions on earth?

 

Thanks, OR. I am aware of the disagreements, and that they have always been agreeable disagreements, if you know what I mean.

 

We can all learn much from agreeable disagreements.

 

Jesus isn't sitting on the throne of His glory now? You mean that He hasn't usurped David yet, and taken David's place? When will this happen?

 

Remember Sissy, Jesus' Kingdom comes with out observation. Jesus is the Head of the local church, as well as the Church, His Body. In the local church, it is smattered with hypocrites, but in the Church, His body, there is not one hypocrit. This is the Kingdom(the invisible body/church), which Jesus reigns over. Sure, He reigns over all of us, whether we be saint or sinner, but He watches over us(the Church) with His everprotecting love.

 

Don't believe him, Brother Tom!! I have seen him curse you to your back. He has used the unfavorable curse words, "fish paste", and "tartar sauce", so be wary of him......be veeerrryyy wary of him.......:laugh: J/K Brother O.R.

 

"Fish paste" - hmm. I don't know how to answer that!
:type:

 

Greetings Tom,

Where then or to whom does all the sin and death in this world get attributed?

What of this sin and death all around us? Will it go on forever?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

HankD​

 

Verse 16 After this I will return,

After what? Will he return after he is through taking out a people for his name?

What did the sacrifice of the passover do? Did it take away the sin of the world?
Pay the death penalty, the wages of sin?

The feast of unleavened bread. The day following the passover, a holy convocation the day after the death of the Lamb of God, what did it do for us?
1 Cor. 5:7 cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ,
A feast of seven days with the last day being also a holy convocation; meaning we are to keep this feast all of our lives by keeping the leaven purged from our lives.
1 Cor. 5:8 so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.
How do we do that?
1 John 1:8,9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The next feast, a feast of harvest, the feast of firstfruits, a holy convocation.
Fifty days from the morrow after the weekly sabbath following the passover
the firstfruits of the Spirit was sent setting apart, a people for his name. Romans 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Eph. 1:13,14 In whom ye also, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The throne of his glory? Maybe?


After this, I will return. Waiting for? What will take place when Jesus returns?
Are there trumpets associated with the day of the return of Jesus?

The feast of trumpets, a holy convocation.

I wonder what that is all about? I wonder why God gave these feasts to Israel anyway being they seem to be more about us than them? I wonder if maybe we should be keeping these feasts?

I believe there may be three more feast days following these. Umm?

Food for thought.

 

Is the church, those in Christ, made up of flesh and blood humans and or also those flesh and blood humans who died in Christ, the dead in Christ of 1 Thess 4:13?

That is the church.

Can flesh and blood inherit the kingdom of God and is the scripture clear about when those who are and were flesh and blood are no longer flesh and blood and fit for the kingdom of God?

1 Cor 15:50-55

 

percho:

Halley's Bible Handbook, page 31 presents what I believe is the best summary of God's purpose as revealed in the Old Testament Scripture.

THREE BASIC THOUGHTS OF OLD TESTAMENT

1. God's Promise to Abraham:

That in his Seed All Nations should be Blessed.

God founded the Hebrew Nation for the specific purpose of making it a Messianic Nation to the World, That is, a nation in which Great Blessings would come to All Nations.

2. God's Covenant with the Hebrew Nation:

That, if they would Faithfully Serve Him,
they would Prosper as a nation,
That, if they Forsook Him. and served ldols,
they would be Destroyed as a nation

All nations worshipped Idols. There were gods everywhere: gods of the earth, gods of the sea, gods of the land, gods of the cities, gods of the country, gods of the mountains, gods of the valleys, male gods, female gods, families of gods.

The Old Testament is an account of God’s age-long effort to establish, in a world of Idol-Worshipping nations, the Idea that there is One God by Building a Nation around the Idea.

3. God's promise to David:

That His Family should Reign over God’s People Forever.

When God’s Nation became a Great Nation, God chose One Family in the nation, the Family of David, and began to build around that Family His Promises, that, out of That Family there would come One Great King, Who would Himself personally Live Forever, and establish a Universal Kingdom of Endless Duration.

Three Steps in Progress of Old Testament Thought:

1. The Hebrew Nation was founded that through them the Whole World should be Blessed: The Messanic Nation

2. The way the Hebrew Nation would Bless the World would be through the family of David: The Messianic Family.

3. The way the Family would Bless the Borld would be thtough One Great King to be born in the Family: The Messiah.

Thus: In founding the Hebrew Nation,
God’s ULTIMATE object was to bring Christ into the world:

God's IMMEDIATE object was to estabtish, in a world of Idolatry, as a background to the coming of Christ, the Idea that there is One True Living God.​

God established for His Covenant People a set of laws and practices; I believe to instill in them the understanding that God was a Holy and Righteous God:

1. The Ten Commandments, which I believe are still valid for all people, especially the Saints of God.

2. Certain sacrifices, ordinances, feast days, etc. All these to be done away with in Jesus Christ and that includes the Passover.

Scripture tells us:

1 Corinthians 5:7. Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

No more Passover: Jesus Christ is our Passover.

Ephesians 2:15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Colossians 2:14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:20. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

No more ordinances, no more feast days, no more sacrifices.

Hebrews 10:4. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

OR

I showed with scripture where it was the sacrifice of the Lamb, the shed blood of Jesus, his death about 3pm on the 14th Nisan that freed us from sin (Egypt) the 15th was the feast the day we left sin (Egypt) leaven was removed from us. This happened the day following the sacrifice. The sacrifice did not negate us being unleavened, it began it and upon confession of sin that same blood continues to cleanse us of unrighteousness for all our life pictured by the second feast day on the 21 Nisan.

According to you the sacrifice did away with the feasts which began the day following the sacrifice. According to you there was no reason for the 120 to be gathered together when Pentecost was fully come. That it was just a coincidence the Holy Spirit fell on them on that feast day, commanded holy convocation, of the LORD.

Was it by coincidence or by the plan of God?


Does scripture associate the coming of the Son of Man to sit on the throne of his glory with trumpets. Is that the day the dead are raised to evermore be with the Lord. 1 Thes. 4:16 1 Cor 15:52 Does the term last trump imply others before it? From 2 Tim 4:1 does it appear the dead being judged is at the same moment of his appearing and his kingdom? What takes place when the seventh of seven trumpets are blown? Is that when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and His, Christ and the dead are given rewards? Rev 11:15-18

I guess I must lean toward post trib because that gives at least 10 days for the marriage supper of the Lamb before the Christ has to deal with, Azazel .

Oh I forgot the strongman has already been dealt with nothing demonic is going on on presently.

Lord teach us to pray.

On earth as it is in Heaven.

 

Not according to me percho, according to the Scripture I quoted above. Now it is obvious the jews did not accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. They continued to meet in the Temple, even though the veil had been torn asunder, to offer useless blood sacrifices until God destroyed the Temple in 70 AD!

God obviously saved a number of His elect that day and the Holy Spirit was given as promised!

I have dealt with most of the above in the thread Revelation 19, 20! There are a total of 7 trumpets according to Revelation. At the 7th Trumpet we read:
Revelation 11:15-19
15. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Verse 15 and following sure sound like the Second coming to me. Verse 18 talks about the final judgment. Can't beat that can you?

I am not familiar with Azazel at all!

Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ bound the strong man and I can't argue with that!

 

The Church, the Lord's body, of which Jesus is her head, is a Spiritual Church/body. The souls of the Christians are who are cleaned by the blood of the Lamb. The body hasn't been cleansed yet.

You see here that in the resurrection, our bodies will be changed from natural to spiritual. In our flesh, dwells no good things. Our flesh must be changed to enter through the portal of heaven. No flesh will glory in His prescense.

In our physical bodies, we can not live forever, neither stay in the lake of fire forever, because our physical bodies would burn up in seconds. The saints and sinners will both be given spiritual bodies, but we, the christians, will have glorified spiritual bodies, like Jesus' body. That is why we will have immortality, because in heaven, we will live forever in our new bodies, and the sinners will have bodies that the flames of the lake of fire will never consume(sp?).

 

This which you have posted, has either flown over my head, or around it. I will need to study this more in depth before I can give what I would believe to be an adequate response.






Now, onto something I'd like to present:



Hebrews 8
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.





Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.



Jesus is sitting on the Throne now, on the right hand of His Father. He has already usurped David and taken his place.


1 Timothy 2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.



Jesus, being on the right hand of the Father in heaven, sitting on His throne, is our mediator, our advocate, our big Brother, our intercessor. This is why I believe He is on the throne of David now.

 

How did David's throne get to Heaven?:laugh: