The Vast Majority of Christian Denominations are Christian "cults"

Then why does he call it another "gospel" if it is not another "gospel"? You are denyng the obvious distinctions between those two very different Greek terms and then denying it is what Paul says it is another "gospel". What is your agenda for denying the obvious. I can't see any objectivity here in your exegesis.

If I followed your kind of exegesis anywhere else in scripture I could change the meaning of any passage I wanted by simply ignoring words that differ and denying the very words being used.

 

If I followed your kind of exegesis here on any other Biblical passage I could make it mean what I wanted to mean by simply denying words that differ in meaning from each other and denying words being used? You can't expect any Bible student to accept that kind of exegetical method can you?

 

From the English version you have a point but from the Greek text your point vanishes into thin air.

Just because the are "false" churches does not mean they are not churches (ekklesia) or congregations. False refers to their doctrine and practice not to their existence as assembles.

 

There are many scholars that point the difference between allos and heretos in this passage as I do. I never confine myself to one scholar's interpretation of anything.

 

No, I don't mean apart from context. The context is clear that is it is the message of the cross of Christ plus circumcision not mere Christ rejecting Judaism of that era. They are preaching Christ plus works for justification. So the context supports the distinction between allos and heteros. If your contention were true he would not even use the word "gospel" to describe their message but would say "if any man preach justification by works let him be accursed" and forego even using the term "gospel.' However, what they preached contained the truth of the cross PLUS works just as many today preach the cross plus works.

No, the gospel has NEVER been about the coming of any kingdom but has always been about the rule of God in the heart by repentance and faith in Christ before the cross (Acts 10:43) as well as after the cross (Heb. 4:1). True Judaism preached the truth of the gospel (Acts 10:43) as it was the gospel of all the prophets. What we have in the New Testament period is an apostate form of Judaism that was trying to be included in the gospel of Jesus as the Christ. New Testament Judaism was a legalistic gospel of justification by faith in the coming Messiah plus good works. Wright is wrong about the "justification by faith without works" referring to a social ethnic covenant relationship that beleived in the right way of salvation. Nobody reading the gospels could possible swallow such a lie as he is trying to pawn off as the legalistic mindset is clearly portrayed by the Pharisees, the pharisee's prayer, the Pharisee's question about what they could "do" to obtain eternal life and the rich young ruler.


I

A person may not be a true Christian but we still call him a Christian by profession. We may not recognize a JW assembly as a true New Testament assembly but they are nevertheless a professed Christian assembly and recognized as a "Christian cult."

However, I agree with you that there are certain truths and practices that must be present for any assembly to be recognized as a true New Testament assembly.

I guess we have to agree to disagree agreeably then.

 

Lets be clear here. Your position depends on making the word choices of no significance.

What you are saying is oxymoronic as you say it is "gospel" and then you say it is no"gospel. Your statement proves the need of distinction shown by the Greek text. It is indeed "another GOSPEL" but is not the TRUE "gospel" and that is the meaning of the Greek text and the immediate context as they were not rejecting jesus as the Christ or the cross but simply ADDING to it and that is where it became a "false" gospel.

I think there are some very significant differences. First, the Galatians had been deceived by false teaching whereas the hebrews were motivated by persecution and trials. Second, the Hebrews were choosing to reject the truth they embraced whereas the Galatians were deceived into rejecting the truth they first embraced. Third, they were going back to the Old Testament gospel which did not reject Christ (Heb. 4:1) but now had rejected Jesus as that Christ.

Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree agreeable.

 

Well, before the good Squire shuts this thread down, I would like to make one last point which I think is significant.

The gospel is not equal to "power" and therefore the gospel can be preached and no power at all asserted as it can come "in word only" without power (1 The.1:4-5).

So the evidence of the true gospel is not power but the determining evidence is TRUTH CONTENT" whether it comes in power or not. Power does make the gospel any more true than without power.

So, "another gospel" does not have to be no gospel simply because it lacks power. Indeed, demonic power may accompany it. But whether or not it is accompanied with demonic power what makes it false is not the presence or absence of power but its CONTENT of error.

This is why Paul refers to the true gospel in contrast to the false as "THE TRUTH of the gospel" in the book of Galatians.

 

If you are defining "kingdom" first and foremost as the spiritual "rule" of God then yes the gospel is about repentance from rebellion against the rule of God and faith (submission) in Christ as your Lord. If you are talking about a physical kingdom then that is also included in the gospel as the ultimate hope but is secondary in significance to the spiritual rule of God now in the hearts and lives of men, as the former must precede the latter and must be of more significance then the latter.

I agree fully without reservation or doubt.

I don't agree here. That kingdom was established in Genesis 1:26 and then reestablished in Genesis 3:15 and has been entered by every child of God since Genesis 3:15 to the coming of Christ (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:1-2). What Israel all the prophets awaited was the manifestation of Person of the King of this kingdom professed by faith to serve while the awaited his appearing and of its visible glory establishment on earth. Rebirth has always been present on earth long before the cross (Jn. 3:3-11; Ezek. 44:5-7; "circumcised in heart" etc.)

No disagreement here! and I will close on that note of agreement.

 

It's not amazing that posts like this on "B"B go unchecked and are allowed to stand. :)

 

Considering it's the truth, what is there to check?

But just so that it's known beyond the shadow of any doubt, kindly answer....

Do you believe it's possible for someone to go to heaven if he has no works?

An Arminian will answer very shortly "no"
So what's your answer - yes or no?

And like my dad used to say, anything short of yes is no

 

It's a huge disservice to the public to demolish the meaning of "cult" by equating the Book of Mormon-based LDS church Bible-only Christian churches which hold differing understandings of the Bible. You give real cults cover by smearing "the vast majority of Christian denominations" as cults. What's left to call Mormonism, an Atheist religion that teaches that we, Jesus, and Jesus's dad are supermen.

 

Please allow me to answer for him. I'll answer that with a resounding 'no', and here's why. Whether we are saved or not, we do works. The works we do are an outpouring of who we are working for. The unregenerate show they are working for Satan via their sinful lifestyle they live day-to-day. The Christian shows they are working for God via their lifestyle they live day-to-day.

Now, the unregenerate show some good works occasionally by helping those in need, being good to others, &c., but the overall picture of their life shows they are not saved. The Christian can show some bad works occasionally by acting out in the flesh, but the overall picture of their life shows they are Christian.

 

I'm using "no works" in the same sense that James 2:14 does
What if a man says he has faith, but has "no works"...

Do you believe it's possible for a man to go to heaven if he has no works?


Jesus warned against looking on the outside of a man:
Wolves in sheep's clothing
Whitewashed sepulchres
Hypocrites and brood of vipers

The Pharisee in Jesus' parable in Luke 18 stood and prayed "God, I thank you...." but Jesus said he would have prayed to himself.