The time travel view of justification by the blood of Christ is without merit. "mad." The view is that people who gained approval through faith under the Old Covenant, were fully justified by the "promised" blood of Christ. Their faith "looked forward" to Christ. This view is as mad as a mad hatter. In order for the time travel doctrine advocates to force their man-made doctrines into scripture they must resort to redefining words (i.e. draw always means compel rather than attract by lovingkindness.) They nullify scripture, Matthew 23:13 does not really say that men who were entering the kingdom were blocked. No that cannot be true because it demonstrates their mistaken doctrine is bogus. But the most egregious misuse of scripture is to ignore the given sequence, and claim the opposite sequence occurred. They put the cart before the horse again and again. How? By the use of time travel. Folks can be washed by the blood of Christ before Christ died. Mad and as ludicrous as this view is, they put it forth again and again, as if repeating an obvious falsehood somehow makes it less of a falsehood. I kid you not.
Abraham had as James would say, "live faith" rather than dead faith. From his faith flowed works, such as offering up Isaac.
Now the bone of contention, if we sidestep all the person insults and misrepresentations of the views of others, is whether we should use the term "justified" when OT saints gain approval through "live faith." Or, the alternate view, should we reserve the term "justified" to only refer to those washed by the actual blood of Christ. This alternate view is the one I advocate. I believe where we see translations use the term justified for OT Saints, that the translation should read "acted righteously." Thus we do not use the term "justified" to mean two very different things, which creates confusion.
Time Travel Theology
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 6, 2023.
Page 1 of 3
-
-
The idea that the God's elect before Christ Jesus died on the cross were stuck in what is, in essence, some "holding cell" for up to thousands of years, waiting to be justified, is inaccurate.
I find the idea that Enoch went to some "holding cell" to be unsupportable in the holy Scriptures.
l find the idea that Moses went to some "holding cell" to be unsupportable in the holy Scriptures.
I find the idea that Elijah went to some "holding cell" to be unsupportable in the holy Scriptures.
The case of Moses and Elijah definitely prove the "holding cell" theory to be unsupportable in the holy Scriptures. Does anyone really believe that those two were released for a few minutes to meet with Christ Jesus when He was transfigured and then sent back, still waiting to be justified?
Christ Jesus even talked about justification when He walked on this earth:
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. -
Van wrote in the opening post in this thread, "In order for the time travel doctrine advocates to force their man-made doctrines into scripture they must resort to redefining words".
Then Van wrote after that (I kid you not), ' I believe where we see translations use the term justified for OT Saints, that the translation should read "acted righteously." '
-
Job 32:2
But the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, burned against Job; his anger burned because he justified himself before God.
According to KenH, "declared himself righteous" before God redefines the intended meaning of the word. Does anyone belief we can actually justify ourselves before God. Good grief.
The only time anyone is actually "justified" before God is when they are washed with His blood, i.e. they undergo the washing of regeneration within Christ. That is why the OT saints were kept in Abraham's bosom, rather than going to heaven. They had not yet been justified, made perfect by the blood of Christ. To claim otherwise is to engage in time-travel theology, asserting they were washed in His blood before His blood was shed. -
(emphasis mine) -
To repeat, No OT Saint, including Elijah, ascended to heaven, meaning the abode of God. Elijah ascended to heaven meaning the earth's atmosphere before He was taken to Abraham's bosom.
The only time anyone is actually "justified" before God is when they are washed with His blood, i.e. they undergo the washing of regeneration within Christ. That is why the OT saints were kept in Abraham's bosom, rather than going to heaven. They had not yet been justified, made perfect by the blood of Christ. To claim otherwise is to engage in time-travel theology, asserting they were washed in His blood before His blood was shed. -
And yet, Van wrote in the opening post in this thread, "In order for the time travel doctrine advocates to force their man-made doctrines into scripture they must resort to redefining words".
-
In post 7, KenH suggested that "holding cell" theology, referring apparently to Abraham's bosom, requires altering the meaning of words. Not sure if KenH is denying "heaven" refers to (1) earth's atmosphere, (2) space where the sun and moon and stars are located, and (3) the abode of God. Every time you see "heavens" ask yourselves, which of the three are in view?
No one ascended to the third heaven, the abode of God before Christ died. This is basic Christianity 101.
Time travel theology is fiction. -
Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
You two just beat all, you know that.
You can stop telling the rest of us what the other one said. We can read for ourselves. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29
"And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!" John 1:36
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." John 1:1-5
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8
Time does not seem to be a problem with Jesus as the Lamb of God. Why are you making humans, to be so out of touch with the Word?
Those in Abraham's bosom were not waiting for justification. They were waiting for the physical redemption of the body. They were already justified, because they were in comfort, and not in torment. -
1) Your translation choice of Revelation 13:8 is inconsistent with Revelation 17:8.
2) God is reconciling the world (fallen humanity) one sinner at a time.
3) Jesus is the Lamb of God, and He sacrificed His life as a ransom for all humanity.
4) No one said "time" is a problem with God, time is a problem for the false teaching of time-travel theology.
5) Why did the OT saints have to wait in Abraham's bosom, rather than enter heaven immediately as the thief on the cross did on the day of Christ's crucifixion. -
Was Jesus also in two places at the same time?
Jesus was standing there talking to Nicodemus, yet said that he was also in heaven that same moment. So at what point was Jesus currently in heaven in that verse?
This verse cannot be used to contradict, nor negate any other verse. -
For one condemning timing, you miss the timing of the thief and those OT in Abraham's bosom. -
Sir, your claims are unbiblical.
1) Your translation choice of Revelation 13:8 is inconsistent with Revelation 17:8.
2) God is reconciling the world (fallen humanity) one sinner at a time.
3) Jesus is the Lamb of God, and He sacrificed His life as a ransom for all humanity.
4) No one said "time" is a problem with God, time is a problem for the false teaching of time-travel theology.
5) Why did the OT saints have to wait in Abraham's bosom, rather than enter heaven immediately as the thief on the cross did on the day of Christ's crucifixion. -
The thief was in heaven the day Christ died, not when Christ left the tomb bodily.
Time-travel theology simply makes God's word to no effect. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
-
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
God's word means what it says.
(1) Why did the OT saints not go immediately to heaven before Christ died?
2) Why did the OT saints have to wait to be made perfect?
3) Time - Travel Theology is false theology.
Page 1 of 3