Was it the Choice of God That You Were Born Into the World

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JD731, Jul 1, 2023.

  1. atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Sort of …
    • [Matthew 19:17 NKJV] 17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
    • [Mark 10:18 NKJV] 18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God.
    • [Luke 18:19 NKJV] 19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God.
     
  2. KenH Well-Known Member

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    I think we agree that the Bible discusses "good" and "evil".
     
  3. atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Will you settle for the post after my next?

    No, I cannot affirm the salvation of those whose names are not written in the book of life before they were born will be added, nor can I affirm that a vessel prepared for destruction can change its predestined fate, nor can I contradict scripture and affirm that it is the will of man that counts and not “God who shows mercy”.

    However, the reality that wheat will always be wheat and a tare will always be a tare and a tare cannot suddenly transform itself into wheat is affirmed by Reformed and Particular Baptist teaching without proclaiming the heretical (contra-biblical) reasons that you falsely ascribe to “Calvinism”.

    I note that you failed to provide support for your false claims about “Calvinist” teaching from the WCF or BCF, so my challenge remains unanswered except for an attack to deflect from your inability to support your false claims about Calvinist teaching.


    You should just present BIBLICAL TRUTH with BIBLICAL SUPPORT (affirmative posts on what you believe) rather than unrelenting “strawman” attacks on the beliefs of others.
     
  4. David Kent Well-Known Member
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    1. Sovereign Ruler of the skies!
    Ever gracious, ever wise!
    All my times are in Thy hand,
    All events at Thy command.

    2. His decree, who formed the earth,
    Fixed my first and second birth;
    Parents, native place and time,
    All appointed were by Him.

    3. He that formed me in the womb,
    He shall guide me to the tomb;
    All my times shall ever be
    Ordered by His wise decree.

    4. Times of sickness, times of health,
    Times of penury and wealth;
    Times of trial and of grief,
    Time of triumph and relief.

    5. Times the tempter's power to prove,
    Times to taste a Savior's love:
    All must come, and last and end,
    As shall please my heavenly Friend.

    6. Plagues and deaths around me fly,
    Till He bids I cannot die:
    Not a single shaft can hit
    Till the God of love thinks fit.

    7. O Thou Gracious, Wise and Just,
    In Thy hands my life I trust:
    Have I somewhat dearer still?
    I resign it to Thy will.

    8. May I always own Thy hand
    Still to the surrender stand;
    Know that Thou art God alone,
    I and mine are all Thine own.

    9. Thee, at all times, will I bless;
    Having Thee, I all possess;
    How can I bereaved be,
    Since I cannot part with Thee?
     
  5. Piper Active Member
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    If it is not a Bible concept, clearly taught from Genesis to Revelation, I am a heretic.
     
  6. Piper Active Member
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    It is common to those who are opponents of truth, restate it, or question it in a way that subtly turns it into "FATE." "FATE" as an interpretation of Reformed Doctrine, is false.
     
  7. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    God exercises his sovereignty in his judgements. He judges men when they sin and will not repent after he has exhibited other of his attributes like mercy and grace and kindness and long suffering, etc.

    If one painted a picture of your God in the form of a man (if you are of the Reformed persuasion) he would be a 100 pound man with a 90 pound hand. He is distorted so bad he is ugly to look at.
     
  8. KenH Well-Known Member

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    The true God is not like the false gods of Greek and other heathen mythologies who can fail to achieve what they purpose. God is never disappointed. God is sovereign...all the time.
     
  9. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    If God the Father came to earth as a man instead of God the Son, there would be no difference. God the Father would have been exactly like God the Son and would have reacted to the same situations in exactly the same way as he did. God the Son did not act in sovereignty. He humbled himself and acted like a man and was subject to their laws, as long as they were morally right. He even paid taxes.
     
  10. KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ was, is, and always will be absolutely totally sovereign in His divine nature. Christ humbled Himself and took on the form of man, but without sin; yet never ceasing to be God with all of His divine attributes.
     
  11. Piper Active Member
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    PREECH IT BRUH!!!!!
     
  12. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think God ceased being God during his incarnation and do you think he was not tempted in all points, like as we are, like he said he was? Do you deny that he put himself under the authority of earthly rules. Do you think he tired from his labor and needed sleep and rest?
     
  13. Piper Active Member
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    I don't answer to you. I answer to the Bible. The Bible teaches that the 2nd person of the Trinity never ceased being what he was when he became what he had never been before.

    Answer that.
     
  14. KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen!
     
  15. Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Do you think God ceased being God during his incarnation

    no

    and do you think he was not tempted in all points, like as we are, like he said he was? Yes


    Do you deny that he put himself under the authority of earthly rules.

    No. Paul addresses it in Colossians, yet Christ demonstrated that He could over come them by: walking on water, raising the dead, knowing their thoughts, etc

    it’s in the Kenosis passage that we see that. We know that Christ chose not to know certain things ie His return, yet He could still know peoples hearts when He chose to do so

    Do you think he tired from his labor and needed sleep and rest

    yes. No one doubts this
     
  16. Piper Active Member
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    He's trying to pin you into a corner.
     
  17. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The question was about sovereignty and Jesus being God. He is the one who said he and his Father are one. He is not acting in a sovereign role, yet he did not cease from being God when he became one of us, a man.

    Look again at what this fellow said.

    Piper thought this illogical reasoning was great.
     
  18. Piper Active Member
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    Are you trying to say Jesus was not Sovereign?
     
  19. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    He does not need my help.
     
  20. Piper Active Member
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    Do you think Christ, in his self, changed when he became man?