OK, let’s revisit the claim addressed.
The claim appears to be that because persons are not totally aware of it means they cannot be aligning themselves with the agenda of demons, that is, having spiritual commonality, purpose, mindset, etc. That is to be demonstrated, not merely asserted. It has not been demonstrated. Indeed, I think it cannot be.
There are two fellowships contrasted in the passage. One with Christ, the other with demons. Does Paul say that these Christians participating in the sacrifices understood what they were doing? It appears that Paul is correcting their thinking, not just their outward behavior. They seem ignorant of the reality, namely that their participation in the sacrifices was having fellowship with demons, which is what the non-Christians were doing.
What Exactly Does "Have Fellowship With Devils" Mean?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Apr 13, 2023.
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A. Having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons
1 vote(s)20.0% -
B. Having spiritual interaction with demons
0 vote(s)0.0% -
C. Becoming a partaker of demons
1 vote(s)20.0% -
D. Being influenced by demons
0 vote(s)0.0% -
E. Other (please explain in a comment)
3 vote(s)60.0%
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
My point is that neither you nor anyone else has yet demonstrated from Scripture the validity of the underlying assumption that their engaging in such activities necessarily aligns them with the agenda of demons in engaging in an activity that was originated by demons, etc. Mere assertion that their engaging in those activities is of demonic origin is not proof that it is in actuality the case. -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
But to bring the matter up to the present day, do you suppose that this might have relevance to professing Christians participating in 'interfaith' services or even looking up their horoscopes in the daily newspaper? -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Having looked at many different Greek lexicons, I am presently leaning toward what Louw-Nida and BDAG say that would indicate that to have fellowship with demons concerns participating with demons in the idolatry:
34.6 κοινωνός, οῦ m ; συγκοινωνός, οῦ m: one who participates with another in some enterprise or matter of joint concern - 'partner, associate, one who joins in with.' κοινωνός: οἳ ἦσαν κοινωνοὶ τῷ Σίμωνι 'who were partners of Simon' Lk 5.10; εἰ οὖν με ἔχεις κοινωνόν 'if, then, you think of me as your partner' Phm 17; ; οὐκ ἂν ἤμεθα αὐτῶν κοινωνοὶ ἐν τῷ αἵματι τῶν προφητῶν 'we would not have joined them in killing the prophets' Mt 23.30. συγκοινωνός: συγκοινωνούς μου τῆς χάριτος πάντας ὑμᾶς ὄντας 'all of you being partners with me in the privilege' Php 1.7. [Louw-Nida Lexicon from BibleWorks10]
Being a co-participant in some respect with demons in the idolatry would then be the main thrust.
Not knowing much at all about "interfaith" services, I do not know if the teaching of 1 Cor. 10:20 applies to them or not. If these services involve actual offerings on altars to physical objects of worship, the teaching of 1 Cor. 10:20 would directly apply.
Concerning horoscopes, other passages of Scripture show that believers should have no part in such occult activities. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
If the statement and its claim are being retracted, fine. Just say so. Or provide scriptural proof supporting it.
But denying its essential content, content which denies a possible interpretation of scripture, will only derail discussion. A demand that scripture be presented to refute the unproven claim is a baseless demand.
For all we know, Paul may very well mean what your post (without proof) denies he could mean. It has to be left on the table as a possibility for discussion. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
The ones who assert that having fellowship with demons through the offering of sacrifices on an altar to an idol means "having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons" have to prove their assertion.
To claim that someone has something as their purpose or mindset, it must be proven that they had the conscious intent to do that thing. I have provided evidence that there are people who offer things on altars to idols who do not have anything to do with demons as their intent, purpose, or mindset.
What's more, I can attest directly to my own experience prior to my salvation of offering something (a recitation of words) to a physical object of worship. Led by a very close relative, I had no intent, purpose, mindset, or even thought of doing something demonic or offering anything to demons. In fact, I did not even know what the words meant that I was led to direct to the idol.
Although the reality was that what I did was in actuality to demons, it was not at all my purpose or mindset to do any such thing to demons. -
Today, it's not much different. To move up corporately, especially in sales, you may be required to compromise holiness for profit gained. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
It is quite believable that someone would say they did not realize they were participating with demons. More surprising would be those who said they fully realized it. The nature of deception is that people are deceived.
Furthermore, none of this meant as an accusation, merely observation. Paul meant what he meant, and his teaching was meant for Christians. Even Christians need to be taught better regarding these matters. Paul certainly thought so.
As a final note, there are many ways to be deceived. Paul notes that “Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light,” (see 2 Cor 11:14). There are many supposedly good spiritual things and supposedly good spiritual leaders that in fact are not. All Christians need guidance in these matters. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
How many children did they have? Plenty.
Enough to grieve God with their utter sinfulness.
Which brings up a related point (no pun intended):
After the flood, we are told there were only four couples saved to repopulate the earth. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
And the only argument I’ve made is that your own assertions without proof cannot be the basis for beginning a fruitful discussion. They will only prevent fruitful discussion. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Because there is no biblical evidence to support that view, that view is not biblical. I am going to ignore any more messages from you that support that view unless you provide some actual biblical argumentation and support for the validity of that view. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Reality…having interaction with demons
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
Your post started an argument by asserting that Paul could not mean what you wish to deny, but did so without scriptural proof. Then your posts rant about how someone else is not supporting their own view with Scripture. My posts are expressing the view that such “argumentation” will never get anywhere, as the basis is mere opinion.
I’ll just end with unsupported warnings for others. Engage in idol worship and other such practices at your own peril. What you think you are doing may well deceive you. What is actually going on may well be your downfall. Demons are real. Better to never get involved. But Jesus can deliver you from them. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
I am continuing to study this subject and will post further when I have more substantive information to share. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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