WOMEN PREACHERS

Okay, here we go.

 

Brother James----I can be civil but I can't give you reference to women preachers. There's no room for women behind the pulpit!!

 

I don't find any place for women prachers in the Bible. You may have better luck down in the other denominations board.

 

I am of the opinion that scripture bans women from pastoring, and the way I interpret the verses, there is no wiggle room.

 

Taking that as a given, and also taking the thought that God does and says things for a good reason or purpose, what is that good reason or purpose? Going beyond "Because He says so."

 

Specifically, are we referring to women speakers as well, or women pastors? I know of many godly women whom I've heard speak and expound on Scripture in a teaching atmosphere, but that would not pastor a church because they believe as I do that women do not belong in pastoral ministry.

 

In that case, I hold to my original opinion that women are not to pastor.

 

Dont know why you'd "like" for some one to provide something that doesn't exist!

There, was that "civil" enough?

 

Because I'm too smart to do anything else!!!

 

Axioms:
1. It is unbiblical for a woman to pastor or preach.
2. God does things and says things for good reasons and purposes.

Question:
What is the reason?

 

The Bible gives us two clear reasons for this.....first the woman was created second, after Adam, and secondly, the woman was actually deceived in the Garden.


1Ti 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


edit: I posted at the same time as Scarlett, so I didn't read her's first.........

Sister Scarlett speaks well I think.

 

Preach it, Scarlett!!!
(Oops, I can't use that word)
I mean, Speak the truth!!!!

 

A woman should never pastor. As far as preaching, I think that it's permitted in two situation, one of which is godly and one of which is not. In the godly situation, she is free to preach to women (and I would argue children, but that's a different subject that I have no desire to explore at this juncture). In the ungodly, it's when men abdicate their responsibilities and are unwilling to do what God wants. I think it's similar to Deborah: Why was she in the position she was in?

I know of one church in which a woman preaches simply because there is not a single man who has been willing (or able) to do so. Do I think God wants the church to simply cease to exist? No. Do I think God wants a man in there preaching? Absolutely.

This church is remote. There are no others. You can get there only by plane or ship. She refuses to be the pastor, but she preaches for the time begin. BTW, the men are mostly a bunch of alcoholics who don't attend, and the few who do attend aren't much better.

 

I want to stir the waters a little bit. First, the catalyst:

What about Phebe, the deaconess of the church at Cenchrea (Rom 16:1)?

What about Philip’s daughters, the prophetesses (Acts 21:8-9)?

How do you resolve Paul’s instructions for a woman to pray and prophecy in church (1 Cor 11:5) with his admonition for a woman to be silent and not speak (watch the Greek here) in church (1 Cor 1434) – both in the same letter?

What about the fact that the same Greek word translated elder in Timothy is not equally translated elderess (or whatever the female equivalent might be) when talking about a woman (1 Tim 5)?

Could the Greek word translated silence in 1 Tim 2:12 be better translated state of quietness without disturbance (as it is given in BDAG)?

Now, I know we all believe that a woman should not preach in church – that’s what we were all taught. But just patting each other on the back and having a mutual admiration society doesn’t help the ones coming to our church that really want to know God’s Word. And telling them, “because I said so, that’s why” only works for little kids (and it’s been my experience it doesn’t even work for them very long). Anyway, women have a very big role in the church and I think we short change them a lot more than God intended.

Now, please don’t flame me too badly – I am a rookie here. I’m just saying that “because I said” just doesn’t satisfy and our pet verses in 1 Timothy need to be balanced with Luke’s writings and Paul’s other letters. Are we short changing the women in the body of Christ?

 

Hit upon a nerve, have we???

 

Much is being said about its being unBiblical for a woman to pastor. On its face, that is true. But there are some issues:

1. Is I Timothy actually from the pen of Paul? There is a long history of scholarly critique that suggests that it is not, that it comes from a later period in early church history, when the tradition of male leadership had hardened.

2. Even if it is from Paul, and therefore presumed superior to other writers (a debatable point), is it not true that Paul here, as in I Corinthians, is giving us his personal opinion and practice and is not elevating this to the point of doctrine?

3. And even if the above questions are answered, does not any theory of female subordination get trumped by Galatians 3:28 and similar sentiments that tell us that women and men stand before Christ on equal footing?

Personally I do not see the relevance of the citation of the Adam/Eve story in this connection. Whether you read it literally or as a parable, it tells me that man and woman are created together in the image of God, and that woman is a companion suited to man, but not inferior to him. As the old Appalachian song tells it, woman was created "not from man's head to lord it over him, nor from his foot, to be trod upon by him, but from his side, to be his companion."

By the way, although I support and have participated in the ordination of women to ministry, I always make it a point in these discussions to insist that no one has a right to be ordained. It is a privilege for any of us. Let no one argue that s/he MUST be ordained just because s/he feels called. The church must decide on the basis of its assessment of any such person's maturity, skill, preparation, and readiness.