World's Greatest Empire

Dr. Bob · Sep 5, 2003

Lots of choices out there. Rome, Greece, Persia, China, Babylon, Ottoman, Russian, German, USA, Mayan, Incan, Japanese and some from Mali and other African empires.

I am strongly leaning toward the British Empire circa 1900.

Thoughts?

Pete Richert · Sep 5, 2003

I gotta go with Rome on this one.

rsr · Sep 5, 2003

So many choices. I'd go with the Mongols.

Dan Todd · Sep 5, 2003

God indicated in Daniel that Babylon (the head of gold) was the greatest of empires!!!

Just a thought!

ChurchBoy · Sep 5, 2003

The obvious choice is the United States of America. No "empire" has ever had this kind of military power ever. And the US political and cultural influence is also far reaching.

LadyEagle · Sep 5, 2003

I would go with the British Empire. The sun never set on the British Empire, was the saying.

LadyEagle · Sep 6, 2003

Okay, after giving this some thought & sleeping on it, I have partially changed my mind....

The world's greatest empire as far as land mass and population (in a physical sense) would be the British Empire, IMO.

But the world's greatest enduring empire (spiritually speaking) would be that of Nebuchadnezzer (tracing roots back to Nimrod / Babel), who is also the head of the statue in the book of Daniel, and whose spiritual kingdom has endured until this very day...whose ultimate defeat will come at the Battle of Armageddon at a future date known only to God, when the Greatest Kingdom in Heaven & Earth will come to Power under the reign of our Lord Jesus Christ! Amen!

ChurchBoy · Sep 6, 2003

Dr. Bob Griffin,

Can you define by what you mean as "greatest empire"? Maybe with you help we can apply certain criteria to the "greatest". With defined criteria we can look at the various choices that have been posted so far. IMHO, the USA is the most powerful nation that has ever existed, at least militarily. Because of modern technology, the USA can strike anywhere on earth in a matters of hours.

Thanks,

ChurchBoy

LadyEagle · Sep 6, 2003

Hi, ChurchBoy. Does the US qualify as an empire? We are the strongest and greatest nation on earth, but does that mean we are an empire?

Isn't an empire comprised of several or many nations that become a part or sector of the conquering mother nation?

ChurchBoy · Sep 6, 2003

SheEagle,

I would agree that the USA is not an "empire" in the traditional sense but it at times it behaves like an empire. If you look at the other choices people have posted, there many types of governments represented. The USA has tremendous power and influence throughout the world. How many governments has the CIA helped to overthrow? The USA disregared the UN when it went into Iraq. Even though I agreed with the invasion, the USA didn't wait for UN approval which shows to me an "empire" mentality. In the past empires have exerted influence on other nations through military means. The USA exerts influence mainly through political and ecomonic means. The outcome is the same, though. Hope this helps.

God Bless,

ChurchBoy

Dr. Bob · Sep 6, 2003

In 1797-1914 the USA was an empire in the sense of conquest of weaker nations (Indian tribes), France, Spain, Mexico and Canada, demanding territory, control, concessions. Then overseas to Cuba, Puerto Rico, Philippines and Oceania, et al from Spain.

Thankfully we did NOT get mixed up with European Empires in their territorial conquests in Africa and SE Asia after WWI.

Jim1999 · Sep 6, 2003

Dr. Bob, when did the USA ever conquer anything in Canada? It never even stepped foot in Canada, let alone fire a shot. The only fort built to defend against an American invasion was never ever fired upon in all its history and that fort still stands to-day in Kingston.

There was a Fenian (Irish) raid during the Civil War, but they too were defeated and chased off by the Militia in Ontario....they had nothing to do with America; it was totally an Irish thing.

The other attempt had to do with taking British Columbia, for which the RCMP was formed, and the Yanks backed off, taking the RCMP to be an army rather than a police force.

Cheers,

Jim

Dr. Bob · Sep 6, 2003

Numerous attempts and efforts to take land (much disputed) in the 1800's. Until the line on the 49th parallel was established.

Remember the rallying cry, 54'40" or Fight

IF AMERICA had done what we should have and not just burned your capital in 1812 or raided into Vt during the Civil War, then you guys would be speaking English today!

LadyEagle · Sep 6, 2003

Jim1999 · Sep 6, 2003

I think you have the wrong country or a distorted view of history. The threat to invade Canada was made, but never done.

Burned our capitol? Please, tell me where that capitol was in that year.........and capitol of what?

Cheers,

Jim

Major B · Sep 6, 2003

Originally posted by Jim1999:
I think you have the wrong country or a distorted view of history. The threat to invade Canada was made, but never done.

Burned our capitol? Please, tell me where that capitol was in that year.........and capitol of what?

Cheers,

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, the US did invade Canada, several times. During the revolution:

http://www.americanrevolution.com/AmRevInvasionCanada.htm

And several invasions during the War of 1812.

http://www.battlefieldhouse.ca/battle.html

All of the invasions were ultimately unsuccessful. Eh?

Also, from socialstudieshelp.com, one of the best social studies teacher sites:

D. What happened during the War of 1812?

1. The Canadian Front

a) Madison called for 50,000 volunteers for a year’s service in the regular army. 5,000 signed up. Because of this situation, the first attempts to invade Canada were disastrous.

b) The American fleet on Lake Eric defeated a British fleet. The Americans regained Detroit, and two American armies invaded Canada, winning the battles at the Thames River, York (Toronto), and Fort George.

2. The British Burn Washington D.C.

3. By 1814 British landing parties were burning towns all along the coast. That summer they sent a sizable force up to Chesapeake Bay.

4. In revenge for the American raid on York, the capital of Canada, the British burned the Capitol, the White House, and other public buildings.

Jim1999 · Sep 6, 2003

You are talking about the British colony of Upper Canada. Canada was not formed until 1867 and the first capitol was at Kingston. York (Toronto) was indeed the capitol of Upper Canada. Even in 1867, Canada consisted of Upper Canada (Ontario), Lower Canada (Quebec), Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.PEI was a possession of Nova Scotia at that time.

If the British fleet was on the Thames River they must have been in Canoes. The Thames is a landlocked small river near London, Ontario.

Cheers,

Jim

Dr. Bob · Sep 6, 2003

Jim, you're being obtuse. When I said we invaded Canada, attacked (and partially burned) their capital at York, etc etc YOU rejoin that it wasn't really Canada, it was a British Colony.

You know and I know and everyone knows we're talking about Canada, no matter what the name at the time.

Guess our forbears must have known that it just really was WORTH conquering our northern suburbs. Let the French call the shots.

LadyEagle · Sep 6, 2003

I never knew this, but have learned something new tonight....

The American Revolution
In 1775 American revolutionaries attempted to push their insurrection into Quebec. The Canadiens did not support the revolution, preferring British protection under the Quebec Act than certain assimilation under an American government. The Americans took the towns of Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and Montreal and laid siege to Quebec City. An attempt to take the city on the night of New Year's Eve 1775 failed, and the Americans were driven from Quebec in 1776.

The American Revolution also led to the arrival of thousands of Loyalists (referred to as "Tories" in the United States) who, as their name suggests, remained loyal to Britain and fled north to more securely-held British territory. However, they did not want to live under French law, and the colonies of Ontario and New Brunswick were created for them. The rights of English and French Canadians were set out in the Constitutional Act of 1791, which renamed Ontario and Quebec to Upper Canada and Lower Canada, and set up more effective colonial governments.

The War of 1812
Canada was once again a battleground, this time between the British and the relatively young United States, in the War of 1812. During the war unsuccessful attempts were made by the Americans to invade Ontario, after overestimating the amount of support they would receive from Canadian colonists. Many of the inhabitants of Ontario were Americans who had very recently arrived in Canada, and some of them did support the invading force; however, the rest of the population was made up of the descendants of Loyalists or the original French colonists, who did not want to be part of the United States. The first American invasion came in October of 1812, but they were defeated by General Isaac Brock at the Battle of Queenston Heights. The Americans invaded again in 1813, capturing Fort York (now Toronto, Ontario). Later in the year the Americans took control of the Great Lakes after the Battle of Lake Erie and the Battle of the Thames, but they had much less success in Quebec, where they were defeated at the Battle of Chateauguay and the Battle of Chrysler's Farm. The Americans were driven out of Ontario in 1814 after the Battle of Lundy's Lane, although they still controlled the Great Lakes and also defeated the British at the Battle of Lake Champlain. The war was essentially a draw, and it is much more important for Canadian mythology than it is as a historical event. In Canada it is seen as a victory against American invasions, with heroic legends surrounding many of the participants (such as Isaac Brock and Laura Secord) and battles (especially those in the Niagara Peninsula).

"Responsible Government" and the Rebellions of 1837-38
After the War of 1812, the first half of the 19th century saw the growth of political reform movements in both Upper and Lower Canada, largely influenced by American and French republicanism. The colonial legislatures set out by the Constitutional Act had become dominated by wealthy elites, the Family Compact in Upper Canada and the Chateau Clique in Lower Canada. The moderate reformers, such as Robert Baldwin and Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine, argued for a more representational form of government which they called "responsible government." By "responsible," the reformers meant that such a government would be ultimately responsible to the will of the subjects of the colonies, not to the British legislature or monarchy. The radical reformers, such as William Lyon Mackenzie and Louis-Joseph Papineau demanded a complete break from British rule and the establishment of a republic.

Lower Canada - the Patriotes Rebellion
Louis-Joseph Papineau was elected speaker of the colonial assembly in 1815. His attempts at reform were ignored by the British, and in 1834, the assembly passed The Ninety-Two Resolutions, outlining its grievances against the legislative council. Papineau planned a rebellion in the fall of 1837, although the British troops in the colony quickly put down and forced Papineau to flee to the United States. A second rebellion broke out one year later, but the British put it down as well, with much loss of life and destruction of property.
Click to expand...

Source

Pardon me for digressing from the thread topic.

Clay Knick · Sep 9, 2003

Empires that have had the greatest impact
in history (IMO):

Roman
British
USA? (An unintentional empire?)

Clay

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