1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Another look at Matthew 15:24

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 15, 2024.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 4
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 15:24 NASB
    But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    This verse is used by some to claim Christ came only to His sheep, chosen before the foundation of the world, or in other words, "Limited Atonement."

    Certainly Christ was born into a Jewish family, fulfilling the prophecy that all the nations (peoples) of the world would be blessed through the seed of Abraham. And certainly, Christ's ministry and outreach was to Jewish people first. But then His ministry through Peter and Paul spread to the gentiles (non-Jews).

    Now in the context of our verse Jesus is speaking to a non-Jew (a Canaanite women) And He responds to her faith by restoring the women's daughter.

    The easiest solution to this difficulty, the erroneous view that Jesus was sent only to Jews, is to improve the translation. The Greek word translated "to" is "eis" and means "into or among." Thus "I was sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This still conveys the idea Jesus was communicating to the women that His ministry, at least initially, was among Jewish people. Yet it does not convey that His ministry was exclusively for only Jews, which it was not.
     
    #1 Van, Mar 15, 2024
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ came as Prophet, Priest, and King. As Prophet to Israel in her last days He had nothing to say to non-Jews:

    24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

    Gill:
    "...as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8..."

    Paul:
    8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers, Ro 15
     
    #2 kyredneck, Mar 15, 2024
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Phil 3:5

    I wonder if Paul considered himself to have been of the house of Israel?
     
    #3 percho, Mar 15, 2024
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,155
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus Christ was indeed Sent for the salvation of the Jews, in the first place, as we read, "to the Jew FIRST", as in places like Romans 1:16.

    We read in the much quoted passage in John chapter 1

    "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His Name" (verses 11-12)

    Likewise in Matthew 1:21, " "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

    His OWN and His PEOPLE, no doubt refers to the Children of Israel.

    However, THANK GOD, that it is not ONLY for the Jews that Jesus Christ Came into this world, but, for the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, and those who will REPENT of their sins, and BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord, will be saved.

    Anything else is a FALSE "gospel", as it can save no one!
     
    #4 SavedByGrace, Mar 16, 2024
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As The Prophet (which is the context of this passage) He had nothing to say to the 'ENTIRE HUMAN RACE'. As The Prophet in the 'last days' of the Sinia Covenant He came only to Israel.
     
    #5 kyredneck, Mar 16, 2024
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    According to Galatians 3, people like me (i.e. Gentile) are "His people" as we are children of Abraham. Anything else is FALSE gospel. "All Israel" refers not to all of Abraham's blood descendants, but to all believers transferred into Christ. Anything else is false gospel.

    "I was sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This still conveys the idea Jesus was communicating to the women that His ministry, at least initially, was among Jewish people. Yet it does not convey that His ministry was exclusively for only Jews, which it was not.
     
    #6 Van, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,155
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus Christ Came originally for the Jews, they rejected Him as The Messiah, so salvation was opened to the entire human race

    This is seen in many Old Testament Prophecies and Paul's arguments in Romans chapters 9 to 11
     
    #7 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2024
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did all non-Jews go to hell before "salvation was opened to the entire human race"?

    No hope for the Gentiles prior to the cross?
     
    #8 kyredneck, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @SavedByGrace , what kind of mean cruel God do you worship? How are you any better than those horrible Calvinists that you are so deranged and obsessed over?
     
    #9 kyredneck, Mar 17, 2024
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The difficulty is when someone claims Jesus came only for the Jews.

    No Old Testament Prophecy or any of Paul's arguments support Jesus came only for blood line Jews, rather than for believers, whether Jews, of Gentiles grafted into the "natural tree."
     
    #10 Van, Mar 17, 2024
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The easiest solution to this difficulty, the erroneous view that Jesus was sent only to Jews, is to improve the translation.

    "I was sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    This still conveys the idea Jesus was communicating to the women that His ministry, at least initially, was among Jewish people. Yet it does not convey that His ministry was exclusively for only Jews, which it was not.
     
    #11 Van, Mar 17, 2024
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Vanology. From one totally consumed with Calvinist Derangement Syndrome.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Mar 18, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another against the man fallacious argument. This is all they have folks, change the subject slurs.

    The easiest solution to this difficulty, the erroneous view that Jesus was sent only to Jews, is to improve the translation.

    "I was sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    This still conveys the idea Jesus was communicating to the women that His ministry, at least initially, was among Jewish people. Yet it does not convey that His ministry was exclusively for only Jews, which it was not.
     
    #13 Van, Mar 18, 2024
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Vanology
    "I was sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    New International Version
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

    New Living Translation
    Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

    English Standard Version
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Berean Standard Bible
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Berean Literal Bible
    And answering He said, "I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    King James Bible
    But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    New King James Version
    But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    New American Standard Bible
    But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    NASB 1995
    But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    NASB 1977
    But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Legacy Standard Bible
    But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Amplified Bible
    He answered, “I was commissioned by God and sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Christian Standard Bible
    He replied, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    He replied, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    American Standard Version
    But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But he answered and said to them, “I am not sent except to the sheep that have strayed from the house of Israel.”

    Contemporary English Version
    Jesus said, "I was sent only to the people of Israel! They are like a flock of lost sheep."

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep that are lost of the house of Israel.

    English Revised Version
    But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    Jesus responded, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."

    Good News Translation
    Then Jesus replied, "I have been sent only to the lost sheep of the people of Israel."

    International Standard Version
    But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."

    Literal Standard Version
    and He answering said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Majority Standard Bible
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    New American Bible
    He said in reply, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    NET Bible
    So he answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    New Revised Standard Version
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    New Heart English Bible
    But he answered, "I was not sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    Webster's Bible Translation
    But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Weymouth New Testament
    "I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.

    World English Bible
    But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Young's Literal Translation
    and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

    Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (biblehub.com)
     
    #14 kyredneck, Mar 18, 2024
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,155
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You do force the Bible to support your THERIOES!

    The Greek preposition here is eis which is translated AMONG about a dozen times in the KJV, and about 570 times as TO

    Your argument from the Greek scores a huge ZERO :rolleyes:
     
    #15 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am sorry but the Greek Proposition "eis" means "into" not toward. Another Greek proposition means "toward."
     
    #16 Van, Mar 18, 2024
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    d. εἰς means among (in among) before nouns comprising a multitude; as, εἰς τούς λῃστάς, Luke 10:36; εἰς (L marginal reading ἐπί) τάς ἀκάνθας, Mark 4:7 (for which Luke 8:7 gives ἐν μέσῳ τῶν ἀκανθῶν); or before persons, Mark 8:19; Luke 11:49; John 21:23; Acts 18:6; Acts 20:29; Acts 22:21, 30; Acts 26:17; see ἀποστέλλω, 1 b.; or before a collective noun in the singular number, as εἰς τόν δῆμον, Acts 17:5; Acts 19:30; εἰς τόν ὄχλον, Acts 14:14; εἰς τόν λαόν, Acts 4:17.

    sent only among the lost sheep of Israel. The lost sheep refers to a multitude.
     
    #17 Van, Mar 18, 2024
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,155
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    WHERE did I say that it means TOWARD?

    Your "translation" AMONG is NOT what the context says. Your quoting of the Greek grammar in #17 shows that yet again you DON'T know what you are talking about! :eek:

    It is far better to admit that you are WRONG, than to keep on posting NONSENSE!
     
    #18 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1) You used the word "to." ("The Greek preposition here is eis which is translated AMONG about a dozen times in the KJV, and about 570 times as TO )

    2) The definition of "to" is:
    —used as a function word to indicate movement or an action or condition suggestive of movement toward a place, person, or thing reached
    drove to the city
    went back to the original idea
    went to lunch

    3) The actual context matches exactly the "among" meaning as cited in post # 17.
    ​

    ​
     
    #19 Van, Mar 19, 2024
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In post #14, the evidence of "group think" is provided by the redundant copies of Matthew 15:24 where the translators seemingly tried to match the English words of this verse with the English words translating a different statement in Matthew 10:6.

    In one verse Jesus says "only among (eis)" and in the other "go to (pros). Neither verse says sent or go only to the lost sheep.
     
    #20 Van, Mar 19, 2024
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 4
Loading...