How Do They Know?

I will have to disagree with this.
If as you say, "regeneration takes place at the same time conversion/salvation does when one puts their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and is born again" (emphasis mine), then it follows that the work of salvation of the eternal God is a recent work which began after the cross because there was no Jesus Christ to put faith and trust in, and even if it is said that those who looked forward to the coming of a Messiah are in effect putting their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ even if they do not know His Name, then there is still a very large part of humanity composed of nations and tongues and kindred, and of the ages that are being excluded from this.

Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit, and I agree that there is no way we can actually pinpoint when, where, and how we have been regenerated but to lump this altogether with our conversion experience could be erroneous.

John the Baptist was regenerate from the womb, he reacted in the womb simply by his mother being near the womb where Jesus was. Most of the apostles were regenerate by the time they came in contact with their Master, else they wouldn't have "received" Christ as the Messiah.
When exactly were they regenerated ? The Bible doesn't say, but the Bible does say that Jesus once addressed Peter, "when thou art converted..."

 

It is not so that men throughout the world have been without some knowledge of God. Who are all men on this earth decended from? From Noah, and his three sons. So from the beginning of all civilizations now on earth, there was knowledge of God from the beginning. Did this knowledge get twisted and perverted with time? Yes, but the truth was out there.

Did you know that over 200 ancient civilizations have myths of Noah? They do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

Have you ever noticed where Paul went in his missionary travels throughout Asia Minor? He always entered the synagogue. There were synagogues throughout the nations even in Paul's days.

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Acts 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

So, the word of God has been in all the world since the days of Noah and even before.

Why do you think the three wise men came from a far eastern country to find the Christ? They knew of the promised savior.

Matt 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

 

And yet you have in another thread a fellow Arminian who disagrees with the premise of the book Eternity in their Hearts.

Which makes that fact a stark contrast to knocking on doors of houses of unbelievers and trying to win their souls to Christ. Paul went to where there were those who knew the word, either by Judaism, or by word of mouth, and witnessed to them. By the way, Paul was being disobedient here, you know, because he was supposed to be an apostle to the gentiles, not to jews.

agreed. but the poster said: "regeneration takes place at the same time conversion/salvation does when one puts their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and is born again".
How do you put your faith in someone who has not yet been born, crucified, buried, and risen, which by implication (and I may be wrong as to the poster's meaning here) is by preaching the word.

They were part of the Bablonian empire's magi caste (read Daniel) and they were astronomers who saw an extraordinary configuration in the skies and put it down to perhaps a witness of Daniel himself, but we will be conjecturing here.
Their coming to Jerusalem did not necessarily mean they were believers.
Do you think Nebucadnezzar was converted and became a believer ? I hardly think so.
I think Nebuchadnezzar was a die hard idolater, and to him, Daniel's God was simply the mightiest of all gods.
I think the same thing of the magis.
They came to worship a king, not a Savior.

 

This is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black!

Most of your posts drip with arrogance. You talk down to your fellow Christians and act like you are superior.

You say you are not a Calvinist, maybe you are not, but you sure seem to believe a lot like they do.

BTW, I did choose God. After the Gospel was preached and the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart, it was my decision to accept what Jesus Christ did for me on the Cross.

 

True.

Christ has been born, crucified, buried, and risen. His message has been preached in all nations for the last 2000 years. There is no excuse for "unbelief." Salvation comes through faith in that gospel message. It does not come in some mystical regeneration which a person may or may not know has happened to him. The new birth is a genuine experience which each individual is acutely aware of when he trusts Christ as Savior.

Were you blind, dead, not knowing what happened when you were married? That is the parallel of regeneration--being married, becoming part of the bride of Christ. You ought to remember it as much as you remember the day that you were married. That day I became a part of the bride of Christ, to be married to the Lamb. What an event it was! What greater privilege one can have?!
But you are totally unaware of it??

 

OK, I am going to tell you a personal opinion here, but I believe there is some foundation in scripture for this.

Those believers before Christ were looking forward to him according to what was revealed. For Adam and Eve it was her seed who would bruise the seed of the serpent. For Job it was his redeemer who lived and would stand on the earth in the latter days. For Moses it was "the Prophet" that all should listen and hear. Perhaps they did not know every detail, but they believed all that God revealed to them. They were looking for a coming saviour.

The Holy Spirit was not given to all OT saints. Only a few had the Holy Spirit.

Now, here is where I express my personal opinion. I believe all OT saints went down into hell which was divided into two compartments. One was a place of torment for the unsaved, the other was paradise or Abrahams Bosom. But these saints did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit that all believers received after Jesus ascended to heaven.

The scriptures say when Jesus ascended he led captivity captive. I believe (and this is a common belief with many) that Jesus took all the OT saints with him to heaven. Now, it also says Jesus gave gifts to men. I believe this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. I believe at this time Jesus gave the indwelling Holy Spirit to those OT saints, just as he did when he sent the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentacost.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

So, where it says "and gave gifts to men" I believe this is when Jesus gave the indwelling Holy Spirit to OT believers.

The Holy Spirit was clearly not given until Jesus ascended to heaven and was glorified after his resurrection. Believers did not have the Holy Spirit when Jesus was alive before his crucifixion.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

This is why I get so frustrated with Calvinists. I have shown this verse and many others that clearly show a man can believe before he receives the Holy Spirit. John 7:39 clearly says that and is not difficult to understand.

But no matter how many scriptures Calvinists are shown, they just ignore them. Read for yourself, I am not making this stuff up.

 

I will agree if we are speaking of gospel salvation. But more often than not on this board, when "salvation" is mentioned by anyone, he/she is referring to eternal salvation. The one done by Christ on the cross to legally redeem His people, which we all agree to be predicated on nothing more or less than His grace and mercy (Titus 3:5).
And if that is what you are referring to then that is why I question the concept of any action on the part of man.
I understand this type of salvation to be all-encompassing, that is, universal in the sense that the blood was legally applied to all God's people regardless of chronology, race, creed, and even theology, being completely unconditional, and as the Bible says, all "OF" the Lord.
From reading the Scriptures I understand this salvation to be totally independent of any contribution from and by man.

Gospel salvation, on the other hand, is different.
Repentance is proof of this, faith is the result and the requirement. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Did you steal ? Steal no more. Were you a sodomite, then now you are no longer one. Ye are washed, ye are sanctified.
Study to show yourself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Forsake not the assembling of yourselves. Be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds.
all these require action and the natural results are blessings or chastisement, but does not affect the eternal standing of the saint who was chosen in eternity past, accepted in the beloved, had his name written in the Lamb's book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and was healed by the Lamb's stripes.

But that is not what Scriptures say. Here is Jesus Christ's conversation with Nicodemus regarding the New Birth:

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest , except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born ?
Jesus answered , Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth , and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh , and whither it goeth : so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The New Birth is not by experience.
Conversion is.

Three men were known wife-beaters, drunks, gamblers, chain-smokers, and brawlers in a community. Then they all suddenly took an interest in the Scriptures, and secretly began studying the Bible, albeit while drinking and smoking.
Then they began praying in their own unsure way for the Lord, if he were real, to send someone to help them understand the Scriptures better. Then the wife of one of these men requested a seminary student to come and do a Bible study in their home, which happened, and these three men were there, sometimes drunk, sometimes rowdy, even blowing cigarette smoke purposely on the seminary student's face.
Then many weeks later they started to change, they went to the church where the wife of one of them, and the seminary student, were members, then they started attending regularly, then they quit drinking, then they quit smoking, then they quit gambling, and one day they presented themselves for baptism.
One of them pastors that church now which came out of the Bible study group because the seminary student who pastored for two years left for abroad, and the other two are deacons of that church now, all their families members.
When were they born again ?
I would say sometime before they had an interest in the Scriptures.
When were they converted ?
Sometime when they began studying scriptures.
I was the seminary student.

 

I can tell when the wind is blowing. And the wind blows on the outside of my body, not the inside.

Jesus said you could hear the sound thereof. He is speaking of the word of God. Jesus said his words were spirit and they are life. When a person hears the word of God they have a choice. They can believe them as truth, or they can reject it as a lie. But if a man hears the word of God and believes it to be the truth, they are going to be taught by God. They will learn they are a sinner who cannot save themselves. They will learn that God still loved them and sent Jesus to die for their sins. And they will learn if they call on Jesus that he will hear their prayer and grant them forgiveness and eternal life.

 

There is only one gospel--always has been: the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is explained very clearly in 1Cor.15:1-4. Thus, there is no difference between gospel salvation and eternal salvation. All salvation is eternal. All salvation comes through the gospel. I don't differentiate between the two.

Salvation is always "all of God." It is also "the gift of God." A gift is meant to be received. That is the only way it can be attained. Receiving a gift is not a work. When one receives a gift he receives it on the basis of faith. "How much more shall your Heavenly Father give you good things." It is by faith that you know your heavenly Father will give you good and not bad. It is by faith that salvation is accepted; that God is doing a work in one's heart; that the Holy Spirit has come to reside.
This is both regeneration and conversion at the same time. They cannot be separated. Salvation is by faith and faith alone; it includes both regeneration and conversion.

Saved through the gospel results in eternal life. What is so different?

Nobody saves themselves. Are you taking this Scripture out of context? Faith is not a result of salvation; neither repentance a proof.

And all of the above sounds like reformation, not regeneration. Works comes after salvation not before.

I hate to get personal, but I would say this: It is too bad then, that you do not have a new birth experience, the experience of being born from above. I am not questioning your salvation, only the statement that you made above.

The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it? Only you can know when you were saved/regenerated. And God knows. It is our obligation to be a witness to others (Acts 1:8), and God will do the work in their hearts as they respond to the Word. As some point in time they will either reject Christ or receive him.
I trusted Christ at approximately 8:00 pm on Nov.20 19-- in a dormitory room at the local university. At that very time I was born again. I was saved. God granted to me new life in Christ. My sins were forgiven as I became a part of the family of God. Beforehand I was not in His family; I belonged to another family which was at enmity with God. But now, through His Word, I was born again.

 

How do you know the faith by which you believed was a gift?
And if it is a gift, how do you know it was given by God?
How can you be sure? What evidence do you have?

 

That part bolded in red says nothing about faith (the free will of man). It only speaks of revelation. Revelation came to Peter in a different way than it comes to us today. All revelation today comes through God's Word. That is all we need. Blessed art thou OR, for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Word which I sent to you from heaven.

 

Yes, this is speaking of revelation. Look again at what the scriptures say.

John 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

When Jesus asked his disciples "whom do men say that I the Son of man am?", what did the people say? They said, John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the other prophets.

How did the people know of these men? Other than John the Baptist who was a contemporary, the only way they knew of these other men was through the scriptures. They were not zapped by God to know these men.

But who does Peter say Jesus is? The Christ, the Son of God. Now, what did Peter mean by Christ? He meant the Messiah, the promised King, Prophet and Saviour God had promised in the scriptures. All the Jews knew through the scriptures of the promised Saviour.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

The Jews were all looking for this promised Saviour. And they knew many qualities and attributes this Saviour would have. When they met Jesus and heard his words it was obvious Jesus was the Christ.

John 7:31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?

These Jews knew of the coming Christ through the scriptures. When they saw the many miracles Jesus did they were convinced he was the Christ.

So again, this is not showing regeneration. The people were taught by the word of God. And when they saw the miracles Jesus did, and heard his words, they recognized and were convinced Jesus was the Christ.