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AV1611 Translator Sidenotes 2: Matthew

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, Feb 21, 2004.

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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    S.Matthew 24:31 (KJV1611):

    And hee shall send his Angels
    with ||a great sound of a trumpet
    and they shall gather together his Elect
    from the foure windes, from one
    end of heauen to the other.

    Sidenote: ||Or, with a Trumpet and
    a great sound.

    S.Matthew 24:31 (KJV1611alt):

    And hee shall send his Angels
    with a Trumpet and a great sound
    and they shall gather together his Elect
    from the foure windes, from one
    end of heauen to the other.

    I like it [​IMG] the alt matches better with with Paul:

    1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV1769):

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven
    with a shout,
    with the voice of the archangel,
    and with the trump of God    :
    and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    [​IMG]
     
    #121 Ed Edwards, Mar 7, 2004
  2. aefting

    aefting New Member

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    Geneva Matthew 23:18 And whosoeuer sweareth by the altar, it is nothing: but whosoeuer sweareth by the offering that is vpon it, offendeth.

    KJVMatthew 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

    BishopsMatthew 23:18 And whosoeuer sweareth by the aulter, it is nothyng: but whosoeuer sweareth by the gyft that is vponn it, he is a detter.

    TyndaleMatthew 23:18 And whosoever sweareth by the aulter it is nothinge: but whosoever sweareth by the offeringe that lyeth on the aultre offendeth.
     
    #122 aefting, Mar 7, 2004
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Thanks aefting - I was afraid that the AV1611 came up with "guilty" (inaccurate English word) based on Geneva/Bishop/Great/Tyndale. But those versions got it right.

    Offend, debtor, et al. Not "guilty".

    So what WAS the motivation of inserting that word in this particular text?
     
    #123 Dr. Bob, Mar 7, 2004
  4. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    Dr. Bob are you joining the ranks of the KJVOs who believe synonyms are not really the same?
     
    #124 skanwmatos, Mar 7, 2004
  5. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Presumably one "sees the wind" the same way Moses and the Israelites "saw the thunderings" and "the noise of the trumpet" --

    "And all the people SAW THE THUNDERINGS, and the lightnings, AND THE NOISE OF THE TRUMPET, and the mountain smoking: and when the people SAW it, they removed, and stood afar off" (Ex. 20:18, KJV).

    Then does that make the kjV "Old advancements in storybook visualizations?" [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]Yes they did "perceive"/saw the thundersings, the lightnings, the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking, you fail to understand the English, but we'll forgive your ignorance.
     
    #125 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  6. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    I'm afraid the Greek has gotten the best of you and you don't understand English rules of grammar.


    It is considered a violation of correct grammar to repeat the same noun. But it is correct to use a noun that is synonymous to the former noun holding the same value. No wonder yall don't undertsand the Word of God, you don't understand English.
     
    #126 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  7. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    Pre- Did ya just get home from, "church"? :eek:
     
    #127 Orvie, Mar 7, 2004
  8. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    Anybody remember Charlie Brown's teacher? blah, blah, blah, blah
     
    #128 Orvie, Mar 7, 2004
  9. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    I perceive you saw that to be correct, but what clothes am I wearing?
     
    #129 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  10. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    The "Emperor" has no clothes [​IMG]
     
    #130 Orvie, Mar 7, 2004
  11. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Anybody remember Charlie Brown's teacher? blah, blah, blah, blah </font>[/QUOTE]I perceive you saw what was written on her chalk board and learned how to exert her teaching.
     
    #131 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  12. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Good. I hope you're not getting your jollies watching the "Emporer" in the nude.
     
    #132 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  13. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Kinda like:

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    or maybe:

    "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."
     
    #133 ScottEmerson, Mar 7, 2004
  14. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    No, Scott, kinda like verse 16 the "debtor" is swearing by the gold of the temple and in verse 18 the "guilty" is swearing by the gift on the altar. Two different thoughts require two different descriptive nouns, sorry, but good try.
     
    #134 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  15. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Two different nouns needed? YOU THINK GOD ERRED when he used two SAME nouns?

    Debtor = Debtor.

    Does not mean "guilty". Never has, never will.

    But you know that, just can't admit it.
     
    #135 Dr. Bob, Mar 7, 2004
  16. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Also, sorry you don't understand the passage, the debt of swearing by the gold of the temple can be repaid by other than the one making the vow, the "gift" is a "blood" sacrifice and the life is lost and the one who breaks the vow can only be the debtor of the vow, but then he alone is then guilty of the loss of the life of the sacrifce and it's blood. No one can repay his debt, he is GUILTY.

    I come in the name of the Lord, curse me if you will, but I recommend you abstain.
     
    #136 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Why would I curse you? The Bible says, "Comfort the feebleminded". [​IMG]

    BTW, what did Mr T always say about folks?
     
    #137 Dr. Bob, Mar 7, 2004
  18. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Debtor does too mean guilty in this case, you refuse to admit the debtor is guilty in the offense of making a vow by sacrifice then breaking it. A debtor is only a debtor when he breaks his vow by the gold of the temple.

    The guilty of breaking man's law owe a debt to society, the guilty of breaking a vow by sacrifice owe a debt they can never repay.

    Sorry you can't see this, read further into the passage, please.
     
    #138 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  19. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Then give thyself comfort. [​IMG]
     
    #139 Precepts, Mar 7, 2004
  20. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    A person who is a debtor to the law is guilty of violating the law. Seems simple enough to me, unless you are a Ruckmanite who thinks synonyms are "corruptions."
     
    #140 skanwmatos, Mar 7, 2004
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