Ccm

I've also been involved with the choral music ministry at my church for the past six years.

 

The Scripture is clear in its purpose of music and evangelization is not one of them.
I have been to Camp Meetings. We have had Evangelistic Meetings. We have had Revival Meetings in our church.

In the Camp Meetings that I have been at the music still glorifies the Lord, and in fact, that is its purpose--to praise and glorify God. It is not to win souls to Christ. In the Camp Meetings I have been to the good old fashioned hymns were sung such as: "Nothing But the Blood of Jesus." They are theological in nature and lift up the attributes of God and give praise to the Savior.

The same is true about evangelistic and revival meetings. Why should the nature of the music change? It is all about our savior isn't it? If our Savior isn't praised and lifted up there won't be any revival.

When Paul went to the market places and the centers of the cities he didn't take a banjo with him, or any kind of musical instrument. This is what he did:

Acts 17:2-4 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
--He reasoned with him, and for three sabbath days or three weeks. It was out of the Scriptures. The word "reason" means "attempted to prove." And it wasn't through music.

The same word is used when he spoke before Felix:
Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

Acts 17:16-17 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
--He disputed with them daily

Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Why?
Because he preached unto the Jesus and the resurrection.

Then in Corinth:
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Many other examples could be given, but Paul himself declares the method of getting the gospel out:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Paul did not use music as a means of evangelization. It was through the preaching of the cross.

 

Dear DHK,
Thanks for responding.

You wrote in part : " In the Camp Meetings that I have been at the music still glorifies the Lord, and in fact, that is its purpose--to praise and glorify God. It is not to win souls to Christ. In the Camp Meetings I have been to the good old fashioned hymns were sung such as: "Nothing But the Blood of Jesus." They are theological in nature and lift up the attributes of God and give praise to the Savior. ( Much of Contemporary Worship Music songs and hymns are very theological in nature as well ).

The same is true about evangelistic and revival meetings. Why should the nature of the music change? It is all about our savior isn't it? If our Savior isn't praised and lifted up there won't be any revival. "

I agree with lifting up our Savior, but why have music if speech is "more important" (which it is) at these services ?

Can't God be praised by plain speech as well as by music ? Why sing hymns and Psalms when they can be recited ?

Can God use music to prepare the hearts of the listeners to receive the Gospel ?

But,you haven't shown a passage of Scripture that explicity forbids it yet.

If you're going to argue and support your position from the silence of Scripture as your basis, then so will I.

This brings me to the subject of Christian Liberty which was also mentioned by Alive In Christ.

So, music can be used in evagelization as well as speech.

Also, I never implied anything that music is the only way to evangelize people, preaching the Word is primary.

You mentioned how Paul evangelized. I agree with that but where in a revival meeting, camp meeting, does a philosophical discussion take place ? Or is that a part of following up with those who came ?

I never saw a discussion take place during one. Afterwards, yes.

So, in the spirit of Christian Liberty and Charity, let's agree to disagree.

 

Dale--I don't doubt your experience, and am sorry I was not clearer.

We participate in cowboy church and enjoy it, and yes, it reaches those not reached by the local Baptist churches. Part of the draw for it is that they still do the old hymns, just in a western style.

Around here, we have had this experience: a church that voted prior to hiring a pastor that the members did not want to switch to a contemporary format. Hired a pastor who agreed to stick with a traditional format, then once hired began an all rock and roll contemporary format complete with a psychodelic show flashed on the wall up front. When confronted, the pastor stated that "this is what young people want. If you don't change and do what they want, they won't come and you are not being godly because you put your personal preference first." Our young people left. (Guess they weren't godly, either.)

Now cowboy church is drawing those folks away from his church, and there are more tirades about how we should not insist on the music WE like.

It isn't the first time we encountered this. Usually someone will say "folks don't know what they like as much as they like what they know. If we do all contemporary they will get used to it and like it."

Now in some parts of the west, the shoe is on the other foot so to speak. Those that forced contemporary on folks that don't like it are being forced to moved to western music or lose those folks.

So my question was this: if a person moves to a church and succeeds in changing WHATEVER kind of music the church has been doing to a music form that person favors, accusing those that balk of being ungodly, will they in turn be godly enough to change music forms when the next new thing comes along?

 

Dear Nodak,

Thanks for giving the details and explaining the basis for your question. Because when you first posed the question, it came across far differently and somewhat "arrogant", which was not your intent.

Again,thanks for clarifying. :thumbsup:

Dale

 

Dear Nodak,

I think that the man you called as pastor should have been truthful with your church organization, instead of flying a "false flag" and imposing his musical vision instead of discussing it with you. It's also interesting that your "young people" left over it.

Nobody likes any type of imposition without any input.

I left my previous church when the new pastor had mega-church dreams and told me that my musical services would no longer needed, because at the age of 48 (in 2001), I didn't exude "youth". He had no problems with my playing. He also advised to find another ministry !

I then went to the church which is my present church and was welcomed warmly and have been serving musically ever since.

Dale

 

Bingo.

That's the whole push of the rock culture. Do you know any female pop singers or successful Chrisitan rock female stars that aren't absolute babes? (Somehow fat black women get a pass on that, but if a girl is white and a bit chunky, her career is over). Older folks generally have mellowed out and have seen the vanity of their youthful indulgences.

Old rock stars are plugging Time/Life collections.

 

Dale...

SHAME on him.

That is disgusting.

 

Annsni...

Isnt it amazing how good instrumental music can do that? I've had experiences just like that.

Its a very sad thing, isnt it. :tear:

 

Dear Ann,

Great post !

You mentioned watching the Chesapeake Bay as the song was played. I live in Halethorpe, Md. between Catonsville and Glen Burnie. I agree, the bay is glorious !

Dale

 

Dear Aaron,

There's more to the story...After my wife & I left, some of the other congregants left over my treatment. But,w2hat killed the "mega-church" dreams was when there was a split in the church over the consecration of V.Gene Robinson,an openly gay man as a bishop in the Episcopal Church. My wife & I are Reformed Episcopalians.

With a much smaller congregation, those dreams died. It's troubling when the terms : "numbers" and "demographics" are used in church.

As for old rock stars selling Time/Life compilations...I've seen Time/ Life ads for Easy Listening,Classical,Hymns,Christmas/Holiday,Country, &'50's music compilations etc. as well.
It doesn't bother me since I'm not compelled to buy them.

I close with this quote from Ecclesiastes 7:10 : " Say not," "Why were the former days better than these ? " " For it's not from wisdom that you ask this."

 

Dear Ann,

I agree,Sandy Cove is a wonderful place. My wife and I have been there a couple of times. We've also been all over the eastern and western shores of the bay since we moved here in 1986.

Dale

 

Oh no they are not! The context of one's experience determines a person's reaction.

A while ago, I posted about my different reactions to the ballet music at the beginning of Wagner's "Tannhauser." Studied and enjoyed the music. It wasn't till I saw the opera live that I got the full visual impact of what that music represented. The association with that music changed.

"Wonderous Things of Thee Are Spoken" is a beautiful hymn to me, but to someone who experienced WWII in Germany and all that entailed only hears "Deutschland Uber Alles" and the horrors of Nazi Germany. That melody is NOT sung or even hummed.

Responses to music are defiitely NOT universal.

 

Good observations.

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