Cured

Sorry, I didn't mean to talk down to you. In fact, the majority of my response was spent confirming that I believe you are redeemed. I don't know where you are at exactly - I know you've been wrestling with the whole Calvinism thing for awhile. That is why I said, "no matter how inconsistent your doctrine may be on the matter." I probably should have used the phrase "might be", because I don't know - you'll have to clarify as you deem appropriate. I didn't intend it as a put down. I know there are plenty of times that I am inconsistent in my Christian walk and/or beliefs.

 

Good -- and how did YOU reconcile, J.D.? I'm asking YOU.

So something good is NOT better than nothing? Go figure. :tear:

1) It is NOT required.

2) It does NOT save those without belief but it certainly lays out a pattern for receiving salvation even if, like me, you did it at home.

3) What it DOES do is it can help establish a day when one was "born again" -- when someone repented to God soul and spirit. When were YOU born again, J.D.? Do YOU remember what YOU did that convinced YOU tha was "the day?"

4) Sacrament is the pagan notion that you can receive the character of God or grace through stuff like YOU believe in -- infant baptism and communion. Communion used to be called the "Agape feast" until it was realized that the pagans understood eating the flesh and blood of sacrifices and so would naturally accept the same from a "Christian" priest who could mystically transform the "elements" into blood and flesh.

Church infant baptism was wrongly substituted for OT circumcision and considered to bring one into the "chosen" clan.

See any similarities between getting saved by infant baptism and communion and what YOU believe? YOUR church doesn't have "invitations" because, you see, they have already "saved" you in baptism and communion.

skypair

 

No problem, brother, apology accepted.

At some point in the future, maybe, I can tell you my specific docrinal stands. Where I stand right now is, there are very good scriptural arguments on both sides of the issue. I had gone silent on the BB for awhile, because I thought all my objections to Calvinism had been thoughtfully, factually, and scripturally answered. Then, johnp came along...

 

Blammo,

I hope you are convinced, as I showed in that one thread, that Johnp is way off base from mainstream historic Calvinism. He even admitted to such.

 

Trust me, Andy, I will continue to be open minded about it. But, I am not going to accept as truth anything that can not be clearly seen in scripture. Many of the verses used to prove the 5 points, fall short of actually doing so. I have begun to study through the Bible again with the idea that the 5 points may be proven. It is now up to the word of God and the Holy Spirit to convince me. I will not put my faith in the wisdom of men.

 

Then why will unbelievers be judged according to their works at the Great White Throne Judgment?

Rev. 20:11-15 (NKJV):

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

JD reply in bold.

 

I disagree. If Christ paid for our sins, then His righteousness is imputed to us and that is how we are saved.

If one is not saved, then one is condemned for one's own sins. Even one is enough to condemn any of us to hell.

 

I disagree. A person is condemned for rejecting Jesus Christ.

 

I am Blessed 16 said:
"I disagree. A person is condemned for rejecting Jesus Christ."


D'ya have scripture for that?

One thing Baptist Board has taught me is that even those points I thought all Christians agreed on.... we don't!

 

But friend, your argument was not about something that predestinationists disagree with you on. We all believe that "whosoever will" may come. That is not a point of distinction. So your argument is against a straw man.

 

But there is no evidence from Scripture that God enables all men to respond. In fact, we are told specifically that he didn’t, such as with Pharaoh and Judas.

The call enables one and not another because the other doesn’t get the call. There is no problem to explain.

yes it is.

You don’t understand what the call is, apparently.

The Bible calls is the obedience of faith.

Not really.

Hope as compared to what? Hope is often used in the Bible with respect to what believers do. That’s not a bad thing to be content with.

Some say that. I don’t think there is a real parallel there.

I don’t know any of these Calvinists. You would have to ask them.

Actually they do. I was reading recently about a amillennialist conference on making sense of Revelation. Talk about a silly conference. It was humorous to me. But many Calvinists have a great knowledge of prophecy. But that is irrelevant here since eschatology and soteriology are two different things.

I think this is pure unadulterated nonsense.

Calvinism arises form the study of Scripture.

Yes. I wouldn’t put it that way but I have heard others do it. Calvinism teaches the gospel. Others do as well, but they are inconsistent in it.

 

Welcome to BB. In another thread recently we found out that God is NOT sovereign, and now we are told that people are NOT condemned for their own sins.

I used to quote these outrageous comments on one of my blogs, but I couldn't keep up with the nonsense, and I got a lot of hate mail for it. They said I was "mocking" them. Oh well.

 

Check out John 3

 

Check out Revelation 20.

 

Gordon, to respond to all you said in post 344 would take far too much time. But I do want to clarify what I believe the Bible teaches, even though you may say I am inconsistent.

First, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, because the scripture says so.

Second, your view of my view of prophecy is incorrect.

Third, God does have absolute knowledge. I also suppose he also knows all the possible decisions as well as the actuals, although there's no point to it. What he knows comes to pass. There is no Plan B.

Don't want you to deny God's holiness nor his on free will. I don't deny it either. And Calvinism is consistent with both. Your position is not.

Those whom God desires to be saved will be saved, in perfect harmony with his perfect will and his holiness. On this we'll just have to disagree.

Man may wholeheartedly believe in the revelation he has, but he cannot be saved unless he hears the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Me neither.

Not quite. What we disagree on is the ground of election. We both believe in election, we both agree that those whom God elects he will inevitably save; and I think you agree with me that those whom he saves he justifies, sanctifies and preserves.

Somehow I had missed that in your earlier posts. I'm shocked, just shocked!

Sure, any time. Shoot, Gordon, my church is filled with folks who hold your views, and I love 'em all, and fellowship with them constantly. They love me, too and are extremely patient with me and my strange views.

 

Malice, no. Mischief, yes.

Discord? We already have enough of that in our friendly debates. How can I bring discord to where it already is thriving?

Anger? Can I make someone angry who refuses to be angry? One needs a thick skin to debate on the Baptist Board. I thought yours was one of the thickest, Allan.

Evil speaking? Hardly. Cheap shot? Well, maybe.

So I repeat my question. Where is the prayer wrong about the non-Cal view?

 

What is the benefit of Christ's being slain from the foundation of the world ?

Who is benefited by this ?

Is this a literal event or is it a picture.

Explanations please, backed by Scripture.