Featured Ephesians 1 Clarified

You keep bringing up Calvin. You tell me.

 

Pagans and gentiles needing to be taught...who could imagine such a need?

You are making a poor argument.

 

This is so jacked up that even jacked up people think that its jacked up

Grave and peace

 

Erm , I.ll take that as a compliment ? peace and gravy .

 

Or chosen to salvation?

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work." ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 ).

Yes there are, Barry.

 

All scripture is very specifically for God's children. God may open the eyes and ears of a non-believer and thus make them alive, but mostly non-believers will think the Bible is foolishness.

What does God say about his children in Ephesians 1? Let us read...

Ephesians 1:1-23 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

The reader can observe what God is saying.

 

The reader can observe what God says.

Ephesians 1:1-23 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

 

Every person in Heaven was chosen to be there, I agree.

But the "idea" that before the foundation of the world God chose a people in Christ, and decided to send His Son to redeem them and die for their sins?
It's clearly in Ephesians 1:3-11 and Ephesians 2:1-10.

What's more is, I don't want to sell it.
It's not for sale.

It's a gift ( Romans 6:23 ).
One that cannot ever be purchased, not for any amount.

 

Lets see if I understand this thread:

Before God created any individual, or dry land, or the heavens and the earth, He chose foreseen individuals that He would create, not based on His knowledge of their foreseen faith, but rather unconditionally based not on any of their foreseen traits.
Perfectly reasonable working hypothesis.

But does scripture allow for such a view? Nope, scripture precludes such a view.

If we had been chosen by God individually before we were created, then we would always have been a people chosen by God. However 1 Peter 2:10 says once we were not a people, so the whole premise is bogus, unstudied, and false.

Now who was indeed chosen before creation? The Word, the Second Person of the Trinity (who actually existed before creation) was chosen to be God's Redeemer, His Lamb of God. (1 Peter 1:19-20) When God chose His Redeemer before creation He corporately chose all those to be redeemed, because you do not choose a redeemer without a plan to redeem.

This alternate view is consistent with all scripture.

 

It would not matter if we start a thread, sir.

We've been over this many times now, and you continue to mock me and those who see the Scriptures as I do.
Regardless, I do hope that you see it someday, and I also hope that the Lord shows you that your continued lack of charitable behavior towards many of those who profess Christ is in direct disobedience to His commands regarding our conduct as believers.

But to clarify, I see this:

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

What do you see?

 

See post # 35, as well as Ephesians 1:4-5.

Exactly.
But they were still chosen in Christ.
Is everyone chosen in Christ?
No.

If they were, they would be "in Christ", and that would result in everyone being saved, wouldn't it?

At what time?

" Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" ( Ephesians 2:11-12 ).

In time past...
That is, during the events of the "Old Testament", under the first covenant... which the Gentiles, by and large, were not part of.

Lastly, no one has hope in Christ before they have believed the Gospel of their salvation...
Because it is by the foolishness of preaching that God chooses to save those that believe.

That is the means by which they are made aware of their being given the gift of eternal life, utiliyan.
Before that, they were without hope...

The same as I was in 1977.

 

I'm just reading what God says about my adoption by predestination, just as it is stated. I can read it and believe it.
You are the one attempting to make it say something else.

The reader can observe and see for her/himself.