Falwell: Jews can get to Heaven without Christ

I already stated that falwell may not believe or teach DC - I was addressing his associations with Christ deniers.

http://www.erwm.com/JerryFalwell.htm

 

falwell's association with sun myung moon [moonies]

http://www.cephasministry.com/evangelists_falwell_moon_bush_connection.html

 

falwell's association with catholicism:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/bennett/bennett_john_paul2.html

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http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/visit-falwellschurch/

Jerry Falwell is comfortable with those who are close to Rome because they reflect his own ecumenism. In Christianity Today, Feb. 21, 1986, Jerry Falwell stated that Catholics made up the largest constituency (30%) in the Moral Majority. In his autobiography Strength for the Journey, Falwell referred to the “Catholic brothers and sisters in the Moral Majority” (p. 371). Jerry Falwell told a meeting of the Religious Newswriters Association that “if we ever opened a Moral Majority meeting with prayer, we would disintegrate” (The Flaming Torch, Jan.-Feb, 1983, p. 14). In an interview with the National Catholic Register published in the May 9, 1982, issue, Falwell said that Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II are “the greatest men in my lifetime.” He did not give any warning about the pope’s false gospel that is cursed of God. While admitting that there are differences between Roman Catholics and “conservative Protestants,” Falwell made the amazing statement that Roman Catholics accept “the new birth experience.” Catholic doctrine identifies the new birth with baptism. Dinesh D’Souza, in his 1984 biography about Falwell, quoted Falwell as saying, “I know many Catholic priests who are born again and who preach the same message I do.” Falwell endorsed Chuck Colson’s 1992 book, The Body, which urges evangelicals to join forces with Catholics and charismatics and which looks upon the Catholic Church as a part of the body of Christ. Colson’s wife is a Roman Catholic.

 

==What did you do a google search? The article about Moon is, by its own admission, an "allegation" and not a fact. The article is choppy and one sided. There are also alot of "...." meaning information has been skipped (which always raises my red flags). I was actually hoping you would bring up Mr Falwell's positive statements about Benny Hinn or something like that so we could agree. However you clearly went with a site that is out in left field someplace. The website you linked to actually has the following statement on its main page:

"Common denominators essential to this new final church prophesied in the Scripture have the effect of anti Christ teachings. Their job to assimilate all cults and cultures seems to send the message that just about anything goes "it is covered by the blood"."

While I would agree that there will be a one world religion in the end times I cannot agree that such a thing exists today. I would even argue that at the current time true believers in each religion are moving further from other religion (no closer).

"It has brought to the surface that some "Christians" in high position condone: rock music, proven to be of satanic origin, homosexuality, abortion, divorce, communication with spirits, consulterers of spirits, necromancy, lying tongues, transexuality, thoughts and ways to oppress the poor, a heart with wicked imaginations, feet that be swift running mischief, bearing false witness, prostitution, conscious intentional falsehoods, following other gods, astrology, and not to forget, "that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15)."

There is alot of promise here but little fulfillment. First I don't know who determined, or proved, that rock music is of the devil. Since the Scriptures are silent on the matter of music style I don't think it is smart, nor Biblical, for us to speak where the Scriptures are silent. Everytype of music has good stuff and bad stuff. God gave us brains, He gave us His Word, and He gave us choice. He expects us to make the correct choice. However there is no proof that all rock music is of the devil. I would also like to know what Christians in high places condone "homosexuality, abortion, divorce, communication with spirits, consulterers of spirits, necromancy, lying tongues, transexuality, thoughts and ways to oppress the poor". Falwell certainly does not and I can't think of any mainstream Bible teacher who does.

The point is this website you quoted has some problems. Not only is the article incomplete (see above) many of the claims of the website's lead page are suspect and, like your accusations, have no supporting facts provided in footnotes (etc).

___________________________________

The other article shows some promise. However once again there are serious problems.

"I’ve been told that at one time Jerry Falwell preached the gospel. If that is true, you sure couldn’t prove it by anything he is doing today. "

Everytime I hear Falwell preach, or when I watch the Old Time Gospel Hour, I hear him close with a clear presentation of the Gospel message. Either the author of the article is not familiar enough with Falwell to know this or he is willfully leaving it out. Either way the above statement is untrue.

"Like a one man Home Shopping Network, Falwell is the Ron Popeil of religious broadcasters. One week he’s offering discount enrollments to his Liberty University Home Bible Institute. Next time it’s real estate for retirees in his Liberty Village retirement community."

==Sour grapes. Where in the Bible does it condemn promoting your business or ministry? Liberty University is a fine Christian school that offers a Christian education to students the world over. Is that what this gentleman is disagreeing with? And since when is it a sin to offer Christians a nice place to retire? O the horror!

While this gentleman does offer some correct critisim of Falwell he cancels that out by some clearly over the top statements (above example).

______________________________________

Now while Catholics have serious problems I don't think they can honestly be called "Christ deniers". Falwell's association with Catholics for political purposes is a fair point of criticism that I often make. However that does not rise to the level of your earlier accusations.

_______________________________________

Ok now that we have done the run through of the typical anti-Falwell websites can you provide some evidence of your claim? Who are the Christ rejectors that are associated with Jerry Falwell Ministries? What are their associations? I want clear, unbiased, information from you about this. If these websites are where you are getting your info from all you are doing is parroting their research (or professed research).

By the way, your quoting of these anti-Falwell sites proves what I said earlier. Let me quote myself:

In Christ,
Martin.

 

his association to benny hinn, who is a Christ denier.

his association with moon, who is a Christ denier.

his association with catholicism, which is Christ denying

 

Jerry Falwell is being mischaracterized, slandered, and treated with hostility. He only preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I would be careful of such rhetoric. It could lead to trouble you dont want.

 

eloidalmanutha:

==While I have severe differences with Benny Hinn I don't think we can call him a Christ denier (at least not in the sense you implied).

==Here you are parrotting the website you linked to. A website and article which, if you read my reply above, has some serious problems.

==Dealt with above.

If this is your evidence than Falwell is in better shape then even I thought he was in. Falwell is not an apostate. While I have my disagreements with Falwell (political activism, etc) I have great respect for Liberty University, Liberty Christian Academy, Liberty Home Bible Institute, Thomas Road Baptist Church, and the ministry of Mr Falwell in general.

IN Christ,
Martin.

 

would that be the rhetoric of falwell taking 3.5 million from moon? or the rhetoric of inviting benny hinn to his anniversary special and calling hinn his friend? or would that be the rhetoric of the advancement of ecumenicism and joining spiritual forces with catholicsm?

 

==While I have severe differences with Benny Hinn I don't think we can call him a Christ denier (at least not in the sense you implied).

==Here you are parrotting the website you linked to. A website and article which, if you read my reply above, has some serious problems.

==Dealt with above.

If this is your evidence than Falwell is in better shape then even I thought he was in. Falwell is not an apostate. While I have my disagreements with Falwell (political activism, etc) I have great respect for Liberty University, Liberty Christian Academy, Liberty Home Bible Institute, Thomas Road Baptist Church, and the ministry of Mr Falwell in general.

IN Christ,
Martin. </font>[/QUOTE]benny hinn:
Benny Hinn quotes on Christians being little Gods/ gods: "When you say, 'I am a Christian, you are saying, 'I am mashiach' in the Hebrew. I am a little messiah walking on earth, in other words That is a shocking revelation.... May I say it like this? You are a little god on earth running around." (Benny Hinn Praise-a-thon TBN November 6, 1990)..."Christians are "Little Messiah's and "little gods" on the earth. Thus [Encouraging the audience]...say "I am a God-man....This spirit-man within me is a God-man..." say "I'm born of heaven-a God-man. I'm a God man. I am a sample of Jesus. I'm a super being. Say it! Say it! Who's a super being? "I walk in the realm of the supernatural." Say it!...You want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and centre. God will begin to prosper you, for money always follows righteousness....Say after me, "everything I ever want is in me already." (Benny Hinn, TBN, 1990)..."If you say, I am, your saying you're a part of him, right? Is he God? Are you his offspring? Are you his children? Then you're not human!" (Benny Hinn, Our position in Christ, #2 1990, audio side 2)..."Let's say, I am a God man.' This spirit man within me is a God-Man. I'm a God-Man." (Benny Hinn Praise the Lord, TBN, December 6, 1990)..."When you were born again the Word was made flesh in you You are everything He was and everything He is and ever He shall be .... Don't say,' I have.' Say, ' I am, I am, I am, I am, I am." (Benny Hinn, "Our Position in Christ #2-The Word Made Flesh" 1991, audiotape #A031190-2, side 2.)

moon:
From pp. 61-66 of this Unification Church book, a message is recorded which the Unification Church purports to be a message from Jesus. On pp. 65-66 the supposed spirit of Jesus is recorded as saying:

"Bring in the flocks. Bring in the sheep and bring them to the throne of your True Parents. Bring them to the throne of our True Parents, the mighty throne of heaven. And I will place the Crown of Glory on our True Parents' head. I will lead them. I will show them that the Lord of Lords and the Kings of Kings and the King of Glory is our precious Lord Sun Myung Moon and his beloved bride Hak Ja Han. They reign as king and queen of the entire universe. And that I, Jesus of Nazareth, known as the Christ, bow in humility before them. I bow before them. Any who will follow me must do the same. I bow before the name of True Parents. I bow before our precious Lords, our True Parents, Sun Myung Moon and Hak Ja Han." (Purportedly by the spirit of Heung Jin Nim Moon, The Victory of Love, NY, NY: The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity, 1992, pp. 65-66).

catholicism:
When the Church invokes Mary under the title, "Coredemptrix", she means that Mary uniquely participated in the redemption of the human family by Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Saviour. At the Annunciation (cf.Lk.1:38) Mary freely cooperated in giving the Second Person of the Trinity his human body which is the very instrument of redemption, as Scripture tells us: "We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb.10:10).

And at the foot of the cross of our Saviour (Jn.19:26), Mary's intense sufferings, united with those of her Son, as Pope John Paul II tells us, were, "also a contribution to the Redemption of us all" (Salvifici Doloris, n.25). Because of this intimate sharing in the redemption accomplished by the Lord, the Mother of the Redeemer is uniquely and rightly referred to by Pope John Paul II and the Church as the "Coredemptrix."

 

Falwell does not hang out with moon or Hinn. He does hang out with Jerry vines, Junior Hill, Paige Patterson, Baily Smith, David Jeremiah, David Allen, and any Conservative SBC entity.

These false statements are baseless and slander.

 

eloidalmanutha:

I am not sure what that is suppose to show. Where did you cut and paste that from? Source please? Then please provide evidence to back up your earlier claim...(ie...that "Christ deniers" are associated with Jerry Falwell Ministries).

Martin.

 

==Yes certainly baseless. There has been no evidence put forward to support the claims. What has been cited has been from anti-Falwell websites that are heavily biased against Falwell. Nothing that can be said or cited will change their minds.

Martin.

 

it real news, not false claims. falwell invited hinn to his party; falwall mixes with other word of faith personalities [who do not believe that Jesus is God]; falwell accepted 3.5 million from moon; falwell wants to unite with catholicism and thinks pope john paul was a great man [catholicism teaches that popes are equal to God] are documented.

I posted exact statements and sources of what each of these three believe about Jesus Christ:

hinn says we are little messiahs equal to God and that all believers are: "I AM" - that is God's Name.

moon says he is the Messiah.

the catholics believe that Mary is co-redemtrix.

what is it about falwell that you can't understand? he is a heretic who hangs with Christ deniers.

 

it real news, not false claims. falwell invited hinn to his party; falwall mixes with other word of faith personalities [who do not believe that Jesus is God]; falwell accepted 3.5 million from moon; falwell wants to unite with catholicism and thinks pope john paul was a great man [catholicism teaches that popes are equal to God] are documented.

I posted exact statements and sources of what each of these three believe about Jesus Christ:

hinn says we are little messiahs equal to God and that all believers are: "I AM" - that is God's Name.

moon says he is the Messiah.

the catholics believe that Mary is co-redemtrix.

what is it about falwell that you can't understand? he is a heretic who hangs with Christ deniers. </font>[/QUOTE]For starters you would think after the embarrassing episode where a “reliable” source is proved categorically false, you would use some discernment when making accusations. Simple Google searches to find “sources” does no more then relegate you to the level of the opening argument. Find a first hand source to support these allegations and then we can have an educated conversation on this subject.

I am utterly shocked that this thread has not been shut down. This title of the thread is an outright lie! I again join the call to shut this thread down. If the issue of Falwell wants to be discussed then it would be reasonable to start another thread, not continue one based on a lie.

 

I personally know that these allegations are false. I would be careful of what you say.

 

Maybe if I use an expletive the moderators will close this thread. They often close threads because they are personally offended. In this case, Falwell has been slandered and the moderators don't seem to care.

Come on moderators, do your #%&@#$% job.

 

I too think Pope John Paul was a great man (That is the one that died last year wasn't it?)

Doesnt mean he was right, but he was a great man.

 

I thought the heretic word wasn't supposed to be thrown around either?

Falwell has now been labeled a heretic who hangs around with Christ deniers!

Unbelievable slander.

 

Well what do you know, Tom Vols, a moderator started this thread.

Did Tom Vols ever retract his OP?

Tom, Tom, come out wherever you are.

Shut it down, already, Tom. Your OP has been shown to be false.