Featured Faulty Logic, Faulty Theology

I don't know what you are talking about when you say 2 Corinthians 15. Please clarify that. Adam was not a natural man. A natural man is the descendant of Adam, who is born a sinner. Adam was created perfect and only sinned when he followed Eve into sin. Once Adam sinned, then he had to have animals killed and sacrificed for his clothing. So death happened right away and blood was shed right away.

However, Adam was created to live eternally and so Adam had a soul. Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

Where doe scripture say we are born sinners?
MB

 

And you are dodging the issue. If he was not dead in sin, what was he before? None of those things changed after sin but something about Adam did change that was now dead in his sin. So what was he before sin?

 

He's answered this about a half dozen times already.

JonC says before the Fall Adam was "not spiritual". Therefore, according to JonC, he was not "spiritually alive". (Jon, correct me if I'm overstepping and not presenting your position correctly.)

 

And that is precisely the non-answer. It does not deal with the issue that Adam was dead in sin after the sin. What was he before? If something is now dead but was not before, there had to be a prior state that was impacted by the sin. What was it?

 

Scripture is adequate. But my point is that Scripture clearly teaches Adam died a spiritual death after the fall. You have not dealt with what Adam was prior to the fall with regard to being dead in sin. I understand that you think you have but you have not. Adam was still flesh and a natural man after the fall so that doesn't tell us anything about the now dead in sin. My argument is that spiritually alive is a return to that upright state, a state of righteousness if you will. Adam had no need for a savior prior to the fall because there was nothing to be saved from. You want so badly for it to be explicitly spelled out in Scripture by one verse or passage but that isn't how we study Scripture. Otherwise you cannot hold to the Trinity. You seem to have two sets of rules.

 

It continues because this is yet another non-answer to the question.

 

Adam had no need to have a mediator between Him and God though, no Messiah, so had spiritual life in him!

 

You are speculating/affirming just as much as any of us that would hold to Adam had spiritual life and was immortal before he fell!

 

Dead in sin, spiritual death, brought to pass his physical death!

 

Adam did not need a messiah before he fell, no need for a mediator between him and God, so what changed in him demanding him now needing a messiah?

 

Paul must have been adding to scripture to then, for he saw Adam Fall being the very source of us now being spiritual dead in our sins and transgressions!

 

The spiritual life that you refer to would be us in our glorified state, but we right now have eternal life still in this weak and corrupted flesh, same way Adam had it, save that he had not corrupted flesh when created!

 

We are all flesh here, physical alive, but also spiritually alive, correct?

 

Amen to that.
MB