Foreknowledge, Foreknown, Predestined

One hint....... read in context.

 

Yeah -- I suppose He could have used monkeys to pass on the gospel to us. In fact, quite often I think monkeys are smarter than those here who claim to know the gospel. So you point is well taken, sir.

skypair

 

Well here is the proof. Skypair has embraced the reverse evolution heresy! Monkeys have taken over the SBC!

 

1. I understand what you are saying, but don't make up a quote and then attributed to someone else.

2. That is what you have done.

 

There was a reason I ignored skypair long ago. I'm beginning to remember now. I've been away too long. :laugh:

 

Get your hands off me, you (dang) dirty apes!

 

Charlton Heston turned that line around in his last ape movie . ( I preferred him in the first one ) .

 

That's it? I quote them right and all you can do is remember when I had a computer problem and was in a hurry and so paraphrased Sproul??

How about debating the issue and learning from it?

skypair

 

1. Then you should have returned and correct this statement: "He[Holy Spirit] is the personality of all the wisdom, emotions, and will of God, friends."

2. Instead of giving the impression that this is what Sproul actually said, whether you were paraphrasing on not.

3. How can I then debate if you are not going to handle primary sources accurate, for that is fundamental in debating.

 

That was MY statement of the truth of the HS, NOT Sproul's.

skypair

 

Please, forgive me for this obvious blunder. All along I thought that was one of Sproul's quote.

 

May I add:

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Hebrews 6:4-8​

Thus, it is possible — on the witness of Paul — for men to Believe, and then later to Backslide.

To wit, it is possible — on the witness of Paul — for men to Believe, but to still produce no "fruit" but only "weeds". (Indeed, the Messiah says specifically this in the Parable of the Sower, Matt 13:21-22.)

How can I possibly have mis-interpreted the plain meaning of these words? Paul would not speak of impossibilities. Paul would not speak of the moon being made of cheese, for that would serve no conceivable purpose. But rather Paul warns against Believing and Backsliding — it can, and has happened, not the least of which from the days of Aaron and the Golden Calf (Ex 32) through the books of Judges and Kings (Chronicles).

Indeed further, this is exactly why Paul wrote Hebrews to the Jerusalem congregation in c. 62 AD — for, James haTzaddik ("the Just"), the head pillar of the church, had just been murdered by the High Priest Ananias at Passover. The Jerusalem congregation was gravely demoralized, and Paul wrote to them to urge them back onto the right path.

 

I agree! :thumbs:

 

I think maybe Bismark is talking about Calvinists being backsliders from the faith they originally professed.

Here's what Dr Rogers used to say about Calvinist "regeneration" though: "If you could have it without knowing it; you could lose it and never miss it!"

Obviously there are a couple of ways that a Calvinist could have it and not know it: 1) paedobaptism or 2) be "elect" and "regenerate" before one even believes as Calvinists insist is their sotierological model.

IOW, what Cavlinists postulate is an antinomy.

skypair

 

How born again and not know it? Take Sproul who believes in "regeneration precedes faith." This is the CORNERSTONE of Calvinism, friend. Perhaps you would like now to disavow Calvinism?

skypair

 

I don't want to be a but-in-ski but I wanted to comment on one thing you mentioned here RB, more specifically here:

This does not speak in any manner about regeneration preceding faith. But states that it is by faith we are saved through His grace. It just appeared that you left off HOW we are 'saved' with regard to 'grace', which is 'BY FAITH'.

If we are saved by 'Grace alone' then, my friend faith is inconsequential, or better it is of no worth. But we are saved (as you rightly claim most often)Salvation is: In Christ Alone, by Grace alone, Through Faith alone.

So it is: "By grace you are saved through faith".

What I would like to know is simply this (and you don't have to answer it cause I think I will make another thread for it).
If we are regenerated before we are saved by faith, we have a very bibilical problem, at least from what I see.

In order to be regenerated one must be made in a right relationship with God (Justified).
In order to be regenerated one must be made seperated unto God (sanctified).
In order to be regenerated one must be made 'alive IN Christ'. (unitied IN Chrst).
and a couple more but you get the idea...

Now, the problem I see regarding all of these which entail regeneration is that scripture states these all are done or obtained "by faith" and yet the person has not yet set forth any faith thus far (by your definition) through which the scriptures state they become operational in and for the individaul. Therefore regeneration in manner which you ascribe can not be what scripture calls regeneration (from what I see)