Fourth Estate, the fourth branch of government

Lincoln was a man from close to the era of the Framers. Lincoln continued to misuse freedom of speech until he was called out on a duel. After his duel he decided that exaggerating the faults in others was not worth the damage that it did.

He began to compliment people and learned that they improved greatly.

Exaggeration (hyperbole) is almost as dangerous as lying. The Supreme Court has ruled that extreme speech (profanity and hate speech, for example) are not protected speech.

Yes, the 'Fourth Estate' has the same rights that it did back then. But, members of this country can no longer call people out to a duel that have lied - that is a huge change that has not been addressed (redress).

Just as this Justice stated: "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent." Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., 1919

Yet today, most Americans have been led to believe (after years of liberal indoctrination) that the press is free to incite anger and hatred through the use of lies.

Yes, I do believe in the OP. Lying just is not beneficial. There is absolutely no reason why Journalists have retreated from the honor codes of just 30 years ago. At least Rather stepped down after publishing forgeries. But, honestly, he should have gone to jail for lying as an officer of the 'Fourth Estate'. Vietnam and the influx of communistic propaganda (& the rise of propaganda on the right as well) has damaged the ability of Americans to think rationally, clearly, and most importantly, truthfully.

What Father, what Framer, what Leader of any era, would have said, "Give me liberty (with a bunch of lying cheats like the British) or give me death?" Those words were the call to repeal the lies and inflammatory nature of oppression that had become our colonies. Why would we now want to go back to an era of oppression?

There are plenty of countries that you can go to if that is your preference.

I prefer a Free USA. Free from the fear of being misled. Free to die knowing the Truth (especially the Truth of Jesus Christ). Free and empowered by the Liberty that comes from true reformation of a country and her people.

 

Unlike your heros that lie in the press, I only defend the statements that I make.

I won't defend your lies. If you cannot handle freedom of speech, then move on - Iraq needs some volunteers.

Now get on task or move on.

The loophole (hyperbole) is that the Framers knew that people (especially people within the press) would misuse the freedom. But, what else do you do? Some tried the Alien and Sedition Acts. That was overboard the other way. They knew that the Alien and Sedition Acts were unconstitutional.

You came to agreement and then your little oligarchy fell apart.

Now get back on task: Should the 'Forth Estate' be allowed to lie.

 

Lagardo

Your straw man is just a lie. You misuse your freedom just as you misuse God's oxygen.

Sorry about your inflaming speech - you got me to misspell your moniker I think your moniker is Lagardo not Laggard

 

I think a key difference is that:

They were not just my Founding Fathers, my ancestors were there. In my blood runs the same indignation at lying that they felt. Unfortunately, it is difficult to make liars become honest. Even the Blood of Christ and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit seems to fail more than I enjoy.

 

You really should read my family history usually called "American History".

Founders pledged their lives and their money. Many families lost their wealth and their homes. Oh to have real men lead this country again. Oh for a day when this country might go back to her Christian ideals. Oh when this country might repeal the evil sacrifice of children to the demi-god of lust, hate, lies and 'freedom' that was never the intent of the Framers.

To go back to a day when a man's word was binding.

Then again, if everyone became honest that would make it difficult for me to get a job.

 

FTR

Isn't it funny how many people have totally turned their backs on this once great country? They get fat and rich and ignore what is really going on. Their straw man mentality keeps them 'fat and happy'.

I know - and I don't know what pressure the opposition used to keep him out of jail for leeking classified. One of them must be in tight with the Kennedy clan or one of the other oligarchy groups within the left wing.

Unless it was a right wing bait and switch. But, there haven't been too many outings of left wingers like there have been of right wingers IIRC. It leads me to believe that someone on the left side got ahold of Hoover's machine and it is still running IMHO.

 

Laggard

My ENTIRE QUOTE.

Page five.

Does the truth run in your blood? Put that straw in your pipe and smoke it.

 

What about the practice of truth are you afraid of?

Would you loose your job? Would you loose your Religion? Would you loose your family? Would you loose your politic?

What about honest and integrity (the OP) scares you so?

 

Strawman someone else. I can speak and write for myself.

Now if you want to say that you believe that lying is to be equated with the freedom of the press - go for it! You are free to speak for yourself.

But, you are not free to lie in my name. I make enough errors on my own without a lout lying about what I said and intended.

 

What are you so afraid of? What fear keeps you from the truth? Is this fear from your father beating you or your mother? [yes, I, also, can manipulate a logical fallacy]

I must say that the ability of creatures like yourself to lie - that is the loophole.

You can strawman someone else. I can speak and write for myself.

 

Nowhere do I see the lies that have been written in my name.
In almost every post, I see lies have hijacked the thread.
The very lies that are the loophole in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Nowhere do you defend the fear that drives you to lie.

The loophole (as I have stated) is human nature. The nature of people to lie, cheat and steal.

The OP dealt with the 'Fourth Estate' checking the powers of the other branches of Government, but not being checked when it lied - that is an abuse of power.

 

Mag

Would you lie to me? Would you? Would you really lie to me?

I would not lie to you. Even for economic gain (billions of dollars (us)).

Isn't it amazing just how little you have read and understood of what I intended as I wrote? You have become so excited, that you would misread truth as an untruth.

I wrote what I meant on the fly & in haste. Like grandpa always said, maker certain every shot counts - you may not get a second. Even in haste, I was hitting what I intended. You took what I intended and read something entirely different into it. OK. It was claimed that I had to intend what what others claimed I meant and not what I meant. So I clarified.

Even in haste - I did not say that my ancestors were my (our) Founding Fathers. I tho't for a moment in time that maybe I had written in such haste (the whole truth I seldom discuss) that I had written something that I did not intend to write.

The truth is that every American that has come from a family that has been here 250 years* has ties, good and bad, to the leaders of the colonies. There might be a few isolated exceptions, but I doubt it. There just were not that many people in colonial times (about 3 million by the 1790 census).

I still haven't told you who my people were. I have let some crumbs drop here and yonder - but, most of those cards I keep close - because people just don't respect the truth.

adios


* the last of my family got here 250 years ago - they did party a little too hardy. But, what a party they started. Shoot, by the time they finished their party - the rest of the family joined in. And the rest of the family had gotten here as fast as they could have and lived to tell about it. Well some got here so fast that they did not live to tell about it.