Free choice to choose...

jonnycool is his name man. Did God bind Adam over to disobedience before or after he was disobedient? Rom 11:32.

john. just in case the free willers are reluctant to grass me up.

 

Why did God shine a light on Paul on the road to Damascus, and not on everyone else?

Why does God choose to provide special revelation of the Gospel to some and not others?

Does God actually "try" the "most possible" to "persuade" every person to be saved?

Since God is omniscient, He would "know" the extent of revelation that would convince even the "hardest" sinner to turn to Christ. Why does God not actually do this, if indeed He "tries his best" to get everyone saved?

 

Because God wanted to save Paul there and then and not everyone else.

Because He loves those He reveals Himself to. He must hate those He does not reveal Himself to.
Because He wants some to be born in the dark and to die in the dark.

No, because Paul was the worse of sinners and all fall short of Paul, since He saves the worse might be best if He had a bit of patience on the rest of us. PS 147:19 He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. 20 He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws.
RO 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law...

Those who do not hear are not saved. Life is poppycock and then you die is true for many.

That is not a possibility but then why does He harden people and not soften them? Because they sinned grossly? All the more reason for a softening and not an hardening I think.

He doesn't try His best but actively wills it according to free willers. Logic has run it's course. God's will will not be done on earth as it isn't done in heaven a?

Did I get them all right?

john.

 

Paul

Paul like Jonah was being used, but even he knew he had to run the race right or even he would be disqualified for the prize.

God does desire that all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

If you walk away, you will only have yourself to blame.

You cannot be like eve blame the snake God created or like adam and blame the woman God created or blame God for not chosing you.

Men have been blaming God from the beginning it isn't going to change.

Today it isn't because of the woman God created, or it is because God didn't chose them

Let it be known God has chosen to save whosoever believes and we are the messengers and you can be the one saved today

2 Corinthians 6

1As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain. 2For he says,
"In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you."[Isaiah 49:8] I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
Paul's Hardships
3We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. 4Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.

11We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. 12We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. 13As a fair exchange—I speak as to my children—open wide your hearts also.

This is our ministry to each other.

Hebrews 3:12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

 

All are to blame and are responsible for going to hell.
God is to blame for anyone going to heaven.

 

Nothing wrong with that. Doubt if anyone would argue with that.

Were there any "outside" influences or causes that caused this to happen.

 

psalms.

Jonah couldn't give a fig for man nor beast just plants. What disqualified Jonah, the reluctance of an hyper-Calvinist?

God desires men to be saved before they have a knowledge of the truth speaks volumes. God wants what He gets according to you. If you are not willing He can go kiss His wants goodbye.

Strange that isn't it? Paul wondered why God still blames us, you know more than he did ? What next, the gospel according to psalms? A new gospel just as it ever was.

I do not blame God for not choosing me, "He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes." Was good enough for a man that just lost his generations and it's good enough for me.
EPH 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--

Listen sinner, we are holy and blameless in His sight we are getting off scot-free.

I'm still in touch with my fallen nature, I know what it thinks of this, we are victims of a Despotic Mad God who needs placating with Blood. A Madness possesses Him, blood! blood! He causes us to sin and then bashes us for it. And what? He owns you He doesn't owe you. It wasn't my fault that Adam took the fruit but I praise God for it. I am because he did.

Good on them then, "...why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" Rom 9:19.

It wasn't me guv it was Adam. It had nothing to do with me, "It was like this when I got here." (Homer Simpson.) What's this free will I hear about and see men, women and children dying from thirst or drowning, where is the Good Samaritan? Oh Him? When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent. JOB 9:23.

That is the lie that leads to Hell, Paul was saved, 1 Th 1:13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
In unbelief. It is God that saves not your ability to walk in His ways, oh great self-righteous one, you do not need saving for you save yourself. Jesus came for the unrighteous not the righteous ones. My sins have been forgotten yours it seems remain.

Unless you were saved yesterday a? You bring a message opposed to mine, do not include me in a we will you?

My ministry to you over and above my normal duties is to sound a warning, you are in danger, I have discharged my duty the rest I do is a favour. If Jesus has paid the penalty for your sins psalms you have nothing to fear, 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

The one that lives in fear does not know salvation. Arrogance at it's best is salvation, my salvation is certain and taken for granted by me. As He hung on the cross He thought of me and loved me more than He loved Himself. Don't kid me we have anything in common psalms, my Father adores me and my Brother took my punishment, this is not negotiable.

Sure, and the promise is for me and my children and my children's children,

To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ:

john.

 

AresMan.

God determines who goes to Hell not men.

The blame game doesn't wash.

All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: (Shakespeare.)

john.

 

Shakespeare eh? Now that's Bible!!!

BTW: I think it was Rush that said it. :laugh:


From the song Limelight:


All the world's indeed a stage
And we are merely players:
Performers and portrayers,
Each another's audience
Outside the gilded cage.


However, I prefer Freewill:


There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
"The stars aren't aligned,
Or the gods are malign..."
Blame is better to give than receive.

Chorus
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland.

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.

Chorus

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.

Chorus

 

Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

That applies to man's so-called "free will", too.

 

Then again, if I have no choice...?

 

If that was you, man, then we cannot agree while we are both on this earth.
We can agree only when we sit by the Master's feet and hear Him reprove one of us for believing the way that one believed.
If I was wrong, then I will be reproved.
If you are wrong, then you will be reproved.
And so with everyone, no exception, on this board.

For now, I can tell you that not for one minute can you convince me that God created Adam for the sole purpose of having Adam sin so that He can glory in His goodness.

Present your argument, and let's explore it.

 

Alright, I had panic attacks over this so I might as well ask it here? What about God's freewill? Is he really unchanging -- then is it beyond his power to change his mind? Or could he at any moment in eternity overturn the truth he gave us in the Bible and make somthing totally new up? Could he suddenly turn sadist and decide to make us all miserable at some point. Or could he disregard us altogher? I know that would mean he'd be divided against himself but isn't he powerful enough to deal with that? Or maybe he was lying about everything to begin with before the creation! He could have even been lying at the Cross pretending that he was suffering and taking in all our sins but in truth because of his power he didn't feel any pain at all! Then again all His effort in the Bible it seems is to prove he is trustworthy to us... but it would be mighty furstrating in his shoes to see all his effort being wasted on us and change his mind anyway...

 

Can God go against Himself ? I think we must go by only what the Scriptures tell us, and anything else is useless conjecturing.

The Scriptures tell us that God says He does not change, that His purposes stand and will happen.

His freewill does not include lying and deceitfulness. If He lied for one minute, this whole universe will cave in, because Truth is what holds this entire universe together, and Jesus Christ is Truth.

His purposes for His people are done already. Nothing to be added to, nothing to be taken away from. Ephesians says they are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

His purposes for the wicked will also be fulfilled, and that day is forthcoming, and soon. Their end is written in Scripture.

 

so what if the universe caves in? it cannot possible hurt or hinder God right? Like I said he could make another one! Another ending!

 

Is pinoy also among the prophets? You will not prophesy the future until told to. Do you tell the truth, do you know the future.

Answer please.

john.

 

pinoy.

Are you not sitting at His feet now? I hear reproving but I am biased.

john.

 

Man, by default, consciously and willingly chooses the broad path that leads to destruction. Being dead in sin, all man knows is sin and falling short of God's glory. The wages of sin is death. All have sinned and all do sin. All are responsible for sin and all deserve hell. Here is a statement with which (I would hope) we all agree.

All of mankind were born in sin, are sinners, commit sin, are fully responsible, and deserve hell. God could send everyone to this place that they rightfully deserve, and would be completely just and righteous in doing so.

Does anyone disagree with this? Now that we are on the same page, we see that God, despite the fact that He could be justified in destroying all of mankind, decided to show mercy and save people. Since none seek after God (Rom 3:10-11) and all are dead in sins (Eph 2:1-10; Col 2:13; 1 Pet 2:21-25), it takes a special act of God to plant the light of the Gospel in hearts so that people will believe the truth (Tit 3:3-7; 2 Cor 4:3-7).

Salvation of anyone is completely of God--every part--for man will not and cannot believe the Gospel unless God changes a heart. Once the Holy Spirit reveals the Gospel light to a heart as truth, one cannot help but believe what is revealed as truth.

Man is completely, willfully responsible and to blame for going to hell.
Only God can be responsible and to blame for anyone going to heaven. All credit and glory for salvation in any and all of its facets must go to God, for God is the cause of it all. This does not exclude faith. God is the cause of that as well.

 

Except that he's promised that he will redeem this universe, and God keeps his word because one of his essential characteristics is truth.

God's freedom, by the way, is not the freedom to do absolutely anything at all, but the freedom to fully express himself, the freedom to be completely who he is. That means there are some things he cannot do, not because he's not powerful enough to do them, but because they go against his nature.

 

AresMan; can you tell me why He chose you and didn't chose someone else. What is there about you that caused God to plant the light of the Gospel in your heart? I find it very hard to believe that if all men are exactly the "same", then why would God pick one over the other to plant the light of the Gospel in his/her heart and not be a God who is a respector of persons. We can say that He has the right to choose who He want to choose, but if He chooses Jim over Joe, it would be showing favor to Jim, seems to me.

Job 32:8But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.