Gulags for U.S. citizens in final planning stages

That is not a very gentlemanly way to talk about a brother in the Lord, you know, especially one who is no longer posting, therefore has his back turned.

 

That is not a very gentlemanly way to talk about a brother in the Lord, you know, especially one who is no longer posting, therefore has his back turned. </font>[/QUOTE]His back is turned because he chose to turn it. Its O.K. for OR to bash others but not O.K. for me to say anything back? I made this statement in jest and not in any way was it meant to be hateful.

 

Wonder how it is that when a government goes bad the citizens always seem to be the last ones to figure it out?

[ March 10, 2006, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: poncho ]

 

NiteShift: //A proposal that was rejected by the Kennedy admistration.
In 1962 no less! The people who knew,
or cared anything about it are long gone.//

Ah yes, it is a Conspiracy Theory's strawman
Thank you NiteShift for exposing it.
But it does remind me of my first Conspiracy
(Like you first love is remembered, so is your first
Conspiracy Theory Book rememberd):

NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON

Yep, you can't call what the Kennedys are doing as
a TREASON for it is succeeding all to well - what a leap
of logic /AKA: jumping to conclusions/.

Back in '91 (or was it '89?) I developed a Conspiracy
rating scheme. The severity of a conspiracy is a product of it's
impact on mankind and the capability of the conspirators to
perform that which they conspire to do.

BTW, 'conspiracy' comes from two words beinging 'to breath together'.
Hummm, synchronous breathing

Title: REPORT FROM IRON MOUNTAIN
Subtitle: ON THE POSSIBILITY AND DESIRABILITY OF PEACE
(Dial Press, 1967), page 94

//The objective of government policy in regard to
war and peace, in this period of uncertainty, must be
to preserve maximum options.//

Wow, how dangerous!! Keep one's options open.
Recall that this writing on the transfer from a total
war footing to a total peace footing came some 15 years before
the fall of the Iron Curtain and the breakup of the
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR).

OldRegular: //However, I will do as I said, not respond
to these foolish conspiracy theories and internet lies that
are posted on this Christian Forum. One can expect such nonsense
on the various leftwing blogs but they have no place on a Chistian Forum.//

Amen, Brother OldRegular -- Preach it!!!
We live in a world where 800,000 Children are sold as sex
slaves each year, no talk on that CONSPIRACY
(actually families of conspiracies).

After a 3-year investigation
a ring of some 300 Meth trafficers has been busted by a
multi-state, multi federal government coalition.
Seems that when Oklahoma went 'register Pseudephedrine HCl sales
required' that production of Meth bottomed, in Oklahoma. But
there are still meth users, so Meth is being brought to and
through Oklahoma from the Meth factories in Mexico.
That is the kind of world we live in. I don't see much board anti-meth
methology development discussions. That is a bigger, closer, more
real problem than a few sicko representatives taking corporate
airplane rides.

 

We live in a world where 800,000 Children are sold as sex slaves each year, no talk on that CONSPIRACY
(actually families of conspiracies).

No talk on that subject? Come on there was talk of it on the floor of congress. Dyncorp, Halliburton?

Click Here

Strawman eh?

1. Present one of your opponent's weaker arguments, refute it, and pretend that you have refuted all of their arguments.
2. Present your opponent's argument in weakened form, refute it, and pretend that you have refuted the original.
3. Present a misrepresentation of your opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that you have refuted your opponent's actual position (for an example see this Google debate on Communism and the Environment).
4. Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute their arguments, and pretend that you've refuted every argument for that position.
5. Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticised, and pretend that that person represents a group that the speaker is critical of.[2]

Pay particular attention to numbers one through four as this looks to be how you are trying to refute the fact that "our government" is no stranger to the idea of using a fake terror campaign to engineer consent.

Thanks for exposing your own strawman techniques Ed.

 

Why nothing will be done about meth trafficking from Mexico:
Fom NUMBERTSUSA &lt;[email protected]&gt;

Nearly five years after the 9/11 tragedy, the DHS still has no idea whether many immigrants are members of organized crime syndicates, are on terrorist watch lists or have lived sordid lives of crime or other anti-social behavior.
Not only is it not presently possible for well-meaning DHS employees to provide for our physical security, but many DHS employees are intentionally endangering our lives. There are close to 500 pending complaints of criminal misconduct against DHS employees who are accused internally of espionage and acceptance of bribes, and even of helping suspected terrorists get permission to live here! Unfortunately, these cases are not being aggressively pursued because the agency's leaders refuse to provide the personnel or resources necessary to investigate them. And employees with allegations pending often continue to hold great power over who enters the country.
______________________________________________

You can choose to make this problem go away by simply ignoring that it exists

 

Well if the Northwoods Document (again, a plan that was never even used) is a strawman, it's one that you yourself put out there. If it's a weak argument why did you use it 6 times in this thread?

 

I never said it was a weak argument. Other people are saying that it is. Like you saying it was never used.

Whether it was used or not isn't the point. The point is that the thinking process behind problem reaction solution was put on paper and forwarded as a plan of action by the U.S. military to manipulate the people into acting a certain way by the use of a fake terror campaign. In this case to go along with a war with Cuba.

 

This is fascinating. I joined this board thinking I was going to be surrounded by conservatives. You mean no one thinks it's a good idea to put Bush-opposers and war-dissenters under the jail forever? C'mon, where's Charles Stanley when you need him?

Next thing you know, you will be favoring homosexuals doing the right thing and getting married...

 

I find it fascinating that we were just speaking of strawmen and out of nowhere out jumps a bunch of them.

 

Ah, strawman... ok... I'm not really made of straw, so you're completely wrong. Or is that a fallacy of equivocation?

 

Or Amphiboly, I saw a strawman standing outside. Was I outside or was he?

 

I'd say it probably falls under the fallacy of irrelevance, most likely a red herring, but it could also be a variation of pedantry.

 

Here is a simple word:
Steer. The 'future Gulag' in
El Reno, Oklahoma is now leased out to a man
who FEEDS HIS STEERS there. Cattle are grazing
in the Main Oklahoma Gulag today.

Compare to Gulags in Red China full of people.

Compare to half-empty Gulags in Russia.

Compare to Gulags in N. Korea with nobody
in them cause they all starved to death.

Compare to Gulags in Iran where they keep
innocent Ba'hai and the diplomatic personell
from other countries. (Recall the current leader
was the one who lead the 'students'
who tortured American Diplimatic personall
in DIRECT DEFIANCE OF THE KORAN )

 

Now you are talking something.
At Fort Smith, Arkansas, there were people
on an army base. There were some 20,000
in the 1980s when Castro sent us some 40,000
hardened criminals (not political prisoners
but murders, thieves, and violent criminals).
I think this only lasted a couple of years.

 

Did Charles Stanley say that this is a good idea or are you just smearing a good man out of hate? Just wondering.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Charles Stanley gave up being a good man in my mind when he said God sent AIDS to punish homosexuals in 1985. He should tell the babies, spouses, healthcare workers, tainted blood receivers and straight people that simply trusted their partners enough to pursue reproduction, onky to get AIDS... that he is sorry for his previous position. Then I will forgive him and so will God.

He always smiles when he says people are being prevented from entering heaven, meaning they are going to hell. He supports Bush, therefore he supports the Gulags and torture as an option that Bush has yet to oppose.

The failure to oppose is the most common form of support!

 

If you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your heavenly Father forgive you your threspessas.

 

Not that George W. Bush needs much encouragement, but Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for the administration's domestic operations -- Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.

"The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements," Graham, R-S.C., told Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6.

"I stand by this president's ability, inherent to being commander in chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat.

"Senator," a smiling Gonzales responded, "the president already said we'd be happy to listen to your ideas."

In less paranoid times, Graham's comments might be viewed by many Americans as a Republican trying to have it both ways -- ingratiating himself to an administration of his own party while seeking some credit from Washington centrists for suggesting Congress should have at least a tiny say in how Bush runs the War on Terror.

But recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be considered helpful to the enemy. Top U.S. officials have cited the need to challenge news that undercuts Bush's actions as a key front in defeating the terrorists, who are aided by "news informers," in the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.


Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs' Link.

SOURCE

Foundations are in place for martial law in the US

By Ritt Goldstein
July 27 2002

Recent pronouncements from the Bush Administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States.

When president Ronald Reagan was considering invading Nicaragua he issued a series of executive orders that provided the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) with broad powers in the event of a "crisis" such as "violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a US military invasion abroad". They were never used.

But with the looming possibility of a US invasion of Iraq, recent pronouncements by President George Bush's domestic security chief, Tom Ridge, and an official with the US Civil Rights Commission should fire concerns that these powers could be employed or a de facto drift into their deployment could occur.

On July 20 the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled "Arabs in US could be held, official warns". The story referred to a member of the US Civil Rights Commission who foresaw the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. FEMA has practised for such an occasion.

FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling US domestic unrest.

From 1982-84 Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defence preparations. Details of these plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal.

They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA.

A Miami Herald article on July 5, 1987, reported that the former FEMA director Louis Guiffrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff, handled the martial law portion of the planning. The plan was said to be similar to one Mr Giuffrida had developed earlier to combat "a national uprising by black militants". It provided for the detention "of at least 21million American Negroes"' in "assembly centres or relocation camps".

Today Mr Brinkerhoff is with the highly influential Anser Institute for Homeland Security. Following a request by the Pentagon in January that the US military be allowed the option of deploying troops on American streets, the institute in February published a paper by Mr Brinkerhoff arguing the legality of this.

He alleged that the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which has long been accepted as prohibiting such deployments, had simply been misunderstood and misapplied.

The preface to the article also provided the revelation that the national plan he had worked on, under Mr Giuffrida, was "approved by Reagan, and actions were taken to implement it".

By April, the US military had created a Northern Command to aid Homeland defence. Reuters reported that the command is "mainly expected to play a supporting role to local authorities".

However, Mr Ridge, the Director of Homeland Security, has just advocated a review of US law regarding the use of the military for law enforcement duties.

Disturbingly, the full facts and final contents of Mr Reagan's national plan remain uncertain. This is in part because President Bush took the unusual step of sealing the Reagan presidential papers last November. However, many of the key figures of the Reagan era are part of the present administration, including John Poindexter, to whom Oliver North later reported.

At the time of the Reagan initiatives, the then attorney-general, William French Smith, wrote to the national security adviser, Robert McFarlane: "I believe that the role assigned to the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the revised Executive Order exceeds its proper function as a co-ordinating agency for emergency preparedness ... this department and others have repeatedly raised serious policy and legal objections to an 'emergency czar' role for FEMA."

Criticism of the Bush Administration's response to September11 echoes Mr Smith's warning. On June 7 the former presidential counsel John Dean spoke of America's sliding into a "constitutional dictatorship" and martial law.

Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He revealed exclusively in the Herald last week the Bush Administration's plans for a domestic spying system more pervasive than the Stasi network in East Germany.

SOURCE

 

1. You make a good point in the first paragraph about AIDS, and yes he should apologize for that IMO. It is not our place to continue hating him for that. We are to love our enemies. I am surprised you missed that part of the Bible since you are such a red letter Christian..."you know--who’s really into those verses in the New Testament that are in red letters!"

web page

2. The rest of your statement only shows how hate-filled and bitter you really are. I really feel sorry for you to carry such a heavy load and burden of hate in your heart. But, then again, part of me hopes you might run for president as a Democrat in 08 and talk just like this.

Joseph Botwinick