How to defeat the EIREITAD heresy!

What was David's sin for which he was chastized?

 

It's amazing how many things I find out that I believe that I never knew I believed until one of these guys told me what I believe!

 

You do judge hearts. You just did.
Jesus pronounced a curse in Mat.23:23. He said:
Woe unto them...that omit justice, mercy and faith.
He also freely forgave the woman caught in the very act of adultery simply giving her a gentle rebuke to go and do it no more. What was more serious in the eyes of Christ? Obviously the ommission of justice, mercy and faith was a far greater sin than the commission of adultery. But we don't find that on any of the lists that you provided.

But again only Christ knows the heart. The confession may be genuine or false.

Give me chapter and verse. The Bible says no such thing. All Christians shall enter the kingdom of God. Except a man is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Every Christian is born of God.

And what makes you think that this list is exhaustive?
Does it include: internet pornography, inside trading, pedophilia, drunk driving, substance abuse, spousal abuse, tax evasion, obesity, slavery, racism, polygamy, speeding, etc. Why aren't these sins on your lists? Does the Lord overlook them? How serious is Pedophelia in contrast to adultery?

That wasn't the gospel that he was preaching in Matthew 23. It was a series of curses. No need for red herrings.

The point is, if the Scriptures did not say that Lot was righteous, you would have judged him unsaved, by the "works" that he did. You judge people by the works that they do, by the life that they live. In your books he wouldn't even have made it to the thousand years of hell fire, he would have only gone to the LOF. Except that the Bible tells you differently you would have never believed that he would have been a Christian. And thus you judge people today when you really don't know the heart.

 

Why do you keep going in circles with these questions. You know the story very well. God judged him because of his sin with Bathsheba.

 

Your doctrine is so full of loopholes you fail to recognize logic and can't follow it anylonger.

 

You even had to misquote the verse to get it to say what you want it to say!

Unless a man be born from above, he shall not see the Kingdom of God.

Now, just a couple of verses later, it says that unless a man do something (born of water and spirit), he cannot enter the Kingdom.

Just like the type that we are given in the children of Israel: They were already in the Promised Land, even if they never left their homes in Goshen. They were saved. This Promised Land was based on nothing more than being in the family.

But, to get to the Land Flowing With Milk and Honey (a Promised Land that was contingent upon works; being faithful), they had to leave their home, be baptized in the Red Sea, and remain faithful, with many of them falling in the wilderness.

But, they were already in the Promised Land.

Maybe God didn't really mean that promise, eh?

 

That's what I expected. Look to the Psalms. Psalm 51:1 says, "To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba." Yet, the story of their sordid affair says that she went in to him. (Although I've heard many people say, "Poor little Bathsheba"; She knew what she was doing!)

If you read their story, he sent for her, she came in to him, she got pregnant, he had her husband killed, and took her as his wife. It was after he had Uriah killed that he was chastized.

It was God's plan that Solomon would be born, etc. But, David took things into his own hands and comitted murder.

If you look down in verse 2 of Psalm 51, he says "cleanse me of my sin". Singular. He confesses his transgressions, but his sin (singular) is ever before him.

Then, down in verse 14, he says, "deliver me from my bloodguiltiness".

It wasn't the adultery that cost him, it was the murder.

 

I appreciate you as well, especially after knowing what time you have spent in studying out your theology in scripture. So many times I, myself, will go days praying in the Spirit before I figure out some item or other in God's word.

You bring up an interesting point, Lacy. I believe the warnings to the church are spiritual in nature -- beware false prophets and teachers, you may sin but don't become a spiritual adulterer, thief, murderer by doing them without confessing it is wrong and asking God for help, beware Satan and his devices. See, the church is never warned about going to hell -- only about loss of rewards and being "saved so as by fire" at the JSOC. It's ALL good for the church believer once we leave this earth --- rapture, glorified bodies, crowns, being with loved ones, a "mansion" or "place" (as you will), "ever be with the Lord" 1Thes 4:17 (doesn't suggest hell, now does it?).

You know what we ought to be doing instead of making schemes for those who sin as believers? We ought to be helping pull them from the fire. If they are believers, God has already given them a conscience full of "fear and fiery indignation that will consume the adversary." We need the message of hope for them to strengthen them by 1) distracting them away from sin with personal, loving attention (1Cor 12:22-26*, a sermon for all of us in this debate) if they will repent.

2) Elsewise, if they won't repent, let them be without the kingdom -- treat them as unsaved, 1Cor 5:5 " To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." There's that allusion to the "wood, hay, and stubble ... saved so as by fire" isn't it? See, for a saved person, "hell" is not there and then (JSOC) -- it is here and now!

The OT warnings appear to be physical regarding deviating from the Mosaic covenant. That's what makes Mt 25:1-13 (church) so different from Mt 14-46 (Israel).

skypair

*"22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour [attention]; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour [attention] to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it."

 

Not sure who you addressed this to or what the complaint is but ---

Only "spiritual man" can see or enter the "kingdom of God" truths, 1Cor 2:14-16! "Spiritual man" is, of course, one who is "born again."

skypair

 

JJ, I think we can make some progress here with these posts of ours. :smilewinkgrin:

First off, the "crowns" are for tossing at the feet of Christ, Rev 4:10! Indeed, they were crowns of VICTORY as from the "race," not crowns of rulesship.

This is known as "replacement theology," JJ. And if you believe it, I can see why you err into the wrong judgments for the church. For Israel, it is true that when they are resurrected to earth, they will receive the land back and rule the world with Christ/Messiah according to THEIR covenants with God. They will also receive the new covenant at that time. This question ought to give you pause: How many covenants with Israel did God not literally fulfill? (Hint: What WERE the Abrahamic, Davidic, Mosaic, everlasting covenants? Are you saying they were not made with real men and real people?)

In spiritual terms, yes. In literal terms, no. We don't, for instance, inherit the land as a inheritance forever -- we inherit heavenly Jerusalem "mansions" forever.

No, I am observing "dispensations" that God has created. If you say we inherit the kingdom of the heavens, I say you are right. Jesus foresaw it in John 1:51 -- angels ascending and descending at our command, 1Cor 6:3. But the earthly realm -- Messiah hath "given you the Gentiles for an inheritance!" Isa 54:3 If you are around on the earth at that MK time, you will be the "inheritance," not the "inheritor!" :laugh:

Yes, and I pray I explained this to you adequately. raying:

Obviously the Gentiles won't -- well, except some nations and cities under the auspices of Israel.

Amazing that John and God called all church believers "kings and priests" then, isn't it? (Rev 1:6 and 5:10).

And as to "bride," then you must not think that Christ can make her holy (Rev 19:8). You must somehow beleive that the only the "perfect" are taken by the Groom to the wedding (Mt 25:1-13), right? But what is perfect? Having OIL -- the perfection of the Holy Spirit -- the "hath sealed us and given us the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts ... Whom, after you believed, ye were sealed with the [2Cor 1:22] ... Spirit of promise [Eph 1:14] ... that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord [2Cor 7:7]."

You can't be a "bride" unless you give yourself to the marriage, right? Your whole self. "Die to self." Or someone could come under your ministry and "fake it" by living what they don't own," couldn't they. Because you emphasize works rather than Christ -- like the Pharisees who THOUGHT they were in but they were out.

skypair

 

There are such sinners and their soul/conscience doesn't struggle against, James. Their souls and spirits are hardened against God and godliness.

skypair

 

I assume you are looking at the "lists" here. Please, read my response to James. These are talking about souls and spirits that have never sumbitted their lives to God and therefore have no soul or spirit to repent much less confess these in order to reconcile with God.

1 Cor 9:27 Keep my body under' in this life so he won't be castaway (ministry discredited -- "shipwreck" his faith) in this life.

2 Cor 5:9-11 "receive for what we did in the flesh good or bad" but no mention of hell for 1000 years, Lacy,

Phil 3:11-15 "attain unto the resurrection" the "finish line" and reward. Nothing to do with not being resurrected or rewarded.

Heb 4:11 "rest" is experience of the Christ life in THIS life.

 

And would you agree that such should repent or be "booted" out of your church? If so, then they just got "booted" out of the kingdom the Bible is talking about.

"And such were some of you" -- but they can come back in if they repent and trust on Christ, right? 1Cor 5:5 and 2Cor 2:6-11, Gal 6:1

skypair

 

It is obvious from this post and others that you have made that you don't know the meaning of the word "sin."
What is the difference between saying:
Christ died for the sin of the world. (which is accurate, and he did)
and:
Christ died for the sins of the world (also accurate).

 

They were already in the Promised Land? Where do you get that doctrine from?

 

Genesus 15:18: In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

They were already in the land that was promised to them, which was promised based on nothing more than being born into the family. They didn't even have to leave Goshen to be there.

 

HOG This is proof positive that you believe that salvation is by works and not by grace, and not by faith. Your theology is far from orthodox. It is the cults that believe in a works salvation.
Now tell me what must a person DO to be saved (i.e. born again)
What are the works involved that a person must accomplish for a persons new birth (i.e. (salvation)? Are you into Catholicism??

 

Boy, talk about a strawman!

I was just pointing out a curiosity that I have discovered that about half the people actually read what the Bible says in this story, the other half says "adultery", and you somehow try to ask, "did he die for a sin or the sins?" type of question.

I guess "who cares?" is an appropriate attitude, though. It's not important what God says, is it?