Husband of one Wife

But, God's clear Word is still His Word ... "Husband of one Wife" is still the clearest and simplest reading of the GREEK text.

 

Hi Scott J;
This is what we are discussing on this thread.

This is not what we are discussing on this thread.

I always thought that there is a distinction between a bishop and a deacon.
How ever divorce is still against the will of God. Divorce is the result of the lack of real Love. One must Love in order to forgive. The type of Love is compassion. If one Loves there spouse as in 1st Cor 13 then one or the other is guilty of an unforgiving heart. Usually the one who will not forgive the other is the one seeking divorce. This holds true for everyone not just bishops or deacons. If we will not forgive then we will not be forgiven. This makes it sin because we are commanded to forgive. Not to mention that once married we have become one. If you marry another what are you then, one and a half?

This is only your opinion and I have mine. My opinion is that you neglect to see that divorce comes from the lack of the Love needed to forgive. You refuse to see being unforgiving as the sin that it is the responsibility of the divorce in the first place. If we forgive truly there would be no need to abolish what God has put together, one flesh. Moses granted divorce because of the hardness of mens hearts. That hardness could only have been unforgiveness. Christ said that this action was Moses' not God's
The prove youy claim I don't have;
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Your defense of Larry doesn't included my defense as well how unfair.

Your argument is without merit.

There are no exceptions to God's will according to your own doctrine of Calvinism. You just keep on defending sin

True but unforgiveness will not be forgiven.
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
It's really sad that men have to have it there own way instead of God's way.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Do you have a proof or reason for contending this other than the feeling that it strengthens your position in this debate?

The best reading is the most literal one unless there is a clear reason why it should not be preferred. "One woman man" includes but is not limited to "husband of one wife".

Are you saying that a man can be married only once and qualify no matter what the rest of his sexual character is like? If no, then what do you base that answer on. A man can certainly be a "husband of one wife" and not be a "one woman man".

You all have constantly tried to claim the high ground... but have failed. "One woman man" regardless of whether you think that discludes divorce or not, is a much higher standard than "husband of one wife".

Have it your way... according to Deut divorce ends a marriage therefore a divorced and remarried man is literally the "husband of one wife" since he is no longer married to the first wife. The Bible says so.

 

Your argument is without merit.</font>[/QUOTE] Based on what? Because you say so? Because you can't actually answer it and it undermines your opinion?

There are no exceptions to God's will according to your own doctrine of Calvinism. You just keep on defending sin </font>[/QUOTE] You make it apparent once again that you don't understand calvinism... or what I believe.

None the less, Jesus and Paul gave exceptions for divorce to end the covenant of marriage.

True but unforgiveness will not be forgiven.</font>[/QUOTE] As I said and you avoided without rebuttal, marriage is about more than love. Marriage is a covenant that can be broken. Jesus and Paul gave reasons for which the offended party could divorce someone who had violated that covenant.

This doesn't mean that they are not still to forgive. It simply means that a person doesn't have to remain bound to someone who violates that sacred covenant.

I agree completely. I don't understand why you all persist in wanting to add your word to His or worse replace His Word with yours. I don't think you recognize that you are doing it but it seems that you are.

Right after Jesus mentioned hardness of heart, He gave the fornication exception for divorce. He has answered your question.

I am being very serious here. God's Word says something. We don't have a right to go beyond what He said even if we think we are being more "conservative".

 

One could only hope for an end to your demeaning comments.
Accussing me of what you are most guilty of.

I did not twist scripture. Your reading of it is twisted.
I can't help it if you lack the maturity to understand mature thought. I should know better than to give meat to a child

Thankyou for calling me young'un. Although we can all tell that you don't know what you're talking about.
The rest of your statement is rather ridiculous.
since you were saved in 1983 at the Maranatha Bible Baptist Church. You have left your first love for Calvinism. Bible Baptist are not Calvinist at least the one I go to isn't. You demand statistics for which I never claimed I had any and then you failed to understand the basics of Love.
Your wonderful comand of the English language is shocking to say the least And it was your major
Why not go ahead a blow off steam, it might make you feel better.
It really would be great if you really abided by your owns words;

That would really make me happy.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Still Mike, I see you have no substantive answers, just attacks. Your understanding of "love" isn't all it should be, friend. Love doesn't always make perfect. Love doesn't always stay non offensive. Love also doesn't mean that something will not happen along the way that will lead to a divorce/separation.

So, I was saved in 1983 @ MBBC. What of it? I was in college long before I went to MBBC. And I'd like you to prove I'm a "Calvinist", and any other accusation you've made against me.

 

There is but in this case God gave the same requirement concerning being a "one woman man".

 

You stopped righte before Christ says you are wrong. That's telling isn't it ...

Without a doubt. I have said this for a very long time.

You are exactly backwards. They refuse to forgive and love because their hearts are hard. The hardness of heart is what causes disobedience.

But even at that, forgiveness does not always save the marriage.

Bad on numerous points. First, if my wife were to cheat and I forgive her, she still has to be willing to be reconciled. If I forgive and she is not willing to reconcile, I can't save the marriage. (Is there an echo in here???? I already said this several times).

Second, the verse about forgiveness is indicating the nature of true salvation. But in this particular case, the point is that people who have learned forgiveness from God practice forgiveness.

That's pretty impossible since you haven't been here that long. But it is really irrelevant to marriage and divorce.

I have studied those verses many times and committed them to memory. So what? I have said nothing here in contradiction to that. If you have read my posts for "almost two years" then you know well that I have said many many times that forgiveness is always the right response. I don't know any possible basis why you would think I don't understand love. Why not tell us why?

For what?? I didn't do anything for you to forgive me for.

That's not true.

That is true.

It depends. When the laymen come up with positions that aren't in Scripture, and I hold the Scriptural position, I am always more right than they are. When they come up with the scriptural position and I don't hold it, they are more right than I. Being right doesn't come with a title. It comes with conformity to Scripture. Everyone is wrong when they do not say what Scripture says.

I wouldn't doubt that in the least. But so what? Do you really think I am the topic of discussion here?

 

Hi Larry;

Fair enough lets take a look at it.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Your problem here is your talking adultry I'm talking forgiveness. Are you claiming that man should never forgive if there spouse commits adultry?
There are more than one sin that applies here and you refuse to see it.
I hate divorce because it always about the ego of one or the other. Adultry is about the same thing, It's about the me me me attitude self.

When a man can explain that they can divorce and remarry and claim it be sinnless then it has to be about themselves.
Love is selfless. always placing the other ahead of your self. Any thing that is so self centered is always sin. This then effect is the worship of self not God;

Define silly.
This was the original subject

And you haven't proven a man is blameless if he has been married more than once.
Why isn't a bishop considerd blameless if he has been married more than once? I mean even if His divorce was for adultry and his wife was the guilty. Does this mean the bishop is innocent? I don't think so because like you say Larry it takes two.
On One hand we have the adultry and on the other we can have a host of different reasons submission is one manipulation is another.Unforgiveness is the biggest.

Love is most important in a marriage with out which the marriage has failed before it gets started. Most people can't even define LOVE. So how can they possibly understand it.

The Love of God is perfect just exactly as said it is in 1st Cor 13. Yet in other discussions you have shown me that you don't believe there is perfect Love. This is why I said I don't believe you understand it. I'm still not convinced
Yes Christ Has shown His light but you didn't see the unforgiveness and still don't.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Hi AVL1984;

attacks of ideas yes that is what debate is about. I disagree that a man can be innocent in a divorce where his wife has cheated on him. that irritates you doesn't it?

what part of this verse that you don't believe Love is?
1Co 13:5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;

How about this one little phrase;

1Co 13:8 Love never faileth:
If your love faileth then it isn't Love. Do you think Love is only part of this?

What parts of Love makes it Love at all?

I stand corrected Please forgive me? I have no excuse I don't know why I assumed that you were a Calvinist.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

I have answered that several times already. Did you read my post immediately above?

REally? And what sin is that?

I hate divorce because it is tearing about a home and a marriage before God. Who cares about ego? That is a side issue to the real problem.

Why is that?

This is true, but doesn't really have much to do with the thread here. Perhaps you can start a thread on this if you like.

Define silly.</font>[/QUOTE]Stuff like I don't believe the Bible, and don't understand love. Stuff like I ignore passages of Scripture.

Finally.

I am not sure I need to prove that, but I already gave a scenario in which a divorced man could be considered blameless.

It depends on the circumstances. A man whose wife dies and then he remarries is not the "husband of one wife." He has two wives.

No, it takes two to make a marriage. It only takes one to go out and commit adultery. If she was the guilty party, then he is innocent of adultery.

Really? And in what conversation was that?

Where did I not see unforgiveness??? I am not even talking about that. I have conclusively put any questions about what I think about forgiveness to rest.

I think you are missing my entire point. I believe "husband of one wife" is inadequate for precisely the opposite reason that you are accusing me of. I believe it is inadequate because the "husband of one wife" can be an adulterer, or a womanizer, or a flirt. And if his wife forgives and stays with him, he is still the husband of one wife, and he is still qualified for ministry, if you think "husband of one wife" was what Paul intended.

I think Paul intended something else ... namely, a man characterized by sexual integrity ... a "one woman man." I believe that, strangely enough, because that is what he said.

All divorced people are not guilty of the sin that caused the divorce. You need to understand that. That doesn't mean they are qualified to pastor. They may, or may not be. My presumption is that they are not qualified to pastor.

 

You should always forgive any sin committed against you. That however does not mean that the marriage is reconcilable. The guilty party may not want to reconcile.

You still haven't dealt with the covenant aspect of marriage. A marriage is a joint declaration of unity and fidelity. Marriage, especially in biblical days, didn't always include "love" the way we view it now. It did include trust and commitment though.

When someone violates this sacred covenant by fornication or abandonment, the Bible says divorce is an option without guilt on the part of the offended party. Paul's example was acceptance of the decision of an unbelieving spouse.

Jesus' example was an active decision on the part of the offended party. In context, He declared that you could put away a wife for fornication. That plainly means that they fornicate and you divorce them since they violated the marriage contract.

 

You haven't proven that a man is blameless if he fails to pray as he should or has ever stolen anything or ever told a lie or ever been drunk or ever fantasized about someone other than his wife or ever flirted with someone after marriage or ever engaged in any kind of sexual behavior before marriage (whether consummated by intercourse or not)....

Blameless can mean alot of things if you want it to cover a person's whole life.

 

ScottJ,

I admire your tenacity. You are one tough dude. Sic 'em.

Lacy

 

Larry;
We disagree on just about everthing. especially about perfect Love;
Love is Love it either has the qualities of Love or it is something else.
My Savior Loves me and forgives every time I confess my sins. He died for my sin with out me ever asking for forgiveness. We are instructed by Paul that, we are to love our wives as Christ loves the Church. However I believe we are also to Love our brothers and sisters with equal fervor. Christ instructed Peter to forgive his brother an infinite amount of times.
For myself I have to forgive any one who ask even if they don't ask. When they don't ask I forgive them any way if not for them for my self and my own peace of mind.
Unforgiveness is hatred and it can destroy a mans heart so fast.
Forgiveness is a wonderful expression of real Love.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

So what do I disagree with in that?

 

Hi AVL1984;

quote: Still Mike, I see you have no substantive answers, just attacks.

Mike says: attacks of ideas yes that is what debate is about.

AVL1984: You're not just attacking the ideas, but the people also. Though you try to veil that fact it is still a personal attack...not just on myself, but others as well. Attack the ideas if you must, but leave the personal attacks out of it.

Mike says: I disagree that a man can be innocent in a divorce where his wife has cheated on him.

AVL1984: Not necessarily so. Being the imperfect beings that we are, any one of us could be tempted and possibly fall prey to sin in our relationships. This does not prove that the injured party, being the male or female, is not the innocent party. I've dealt with many cases in the ministry where one party IS INDEED innocent while the other party is fully to blame and has acknowledged such. I'm dealing with three of these situations at the present. Granted, there are many (and it is probably a great majority of the cases) relationships where both parties share the blame as walls have been built on both sides, preventing effective communication and resolution of conflict in the relationship, and many times doing irreparable damage, leaving one or both parties feeling helpless to the point where they start seeking their happiness outside of their marriage relationship.

Mike says: that irritates you doesn't it?

No, Mike. What irritates me is the lack of hard facts, Biblical or scientific. Blanket statements and misinterpretation and misappropriation of the scriptures irritate me.

quote: Love doesn't always make perfect. Love doesn't always stay non offensive. Love also doesn't mean that something will not happen along the way that will lead to a divorce/separation.

Mike asks: what part of this verse that you don't believe Love is?

AVL1984: Okay, Mike..let's take this one by one:

1Co 13:5 doth not behave itself unseemly,

AVL1984:Mike, are you married? Have you ever behaved yourself inappropriately? If you have, then you're an exception to the rule. If you haven't, then do you/did you still love that person?

seeketh not its own,

AVL1984: Mike, have you put your own needs before the needs of others you love? If so, do you/did you still love this person?

is not provoked,

AVL1984: Mike, have you ever been angry with someone you love? If so, do or did you still love this person? Or is it negated because of your anger, even a split second of it!?

taketh not account of evil;

AVL1984: Mike, have you ever held a grudge against someone you love, even for a second? If so, do you/did you still love this person?

Mike says:How about this one little phrase;

AVL1984: Yes, let's dealve into that "little phrase", more appropriately known as scripture.

1Co 13:8 Love never faileth:
If your love faileth then it isn't Love. Do you think Love is only part of this?

AVL1984: God's love NEVER fails, but human love will, has and always will. Why? Because of the fall of man and the introduction of sin into this world. We can only strive to be what God wants and towards that ideal of perfect love. We will have perfect love when we are with Him in glory.

Mike asks: What parts of Love makes it Love at all?

AVL1984: Mike, this is a good question. Again..all we can do is strive to show love, in as Godly and as perfect a measure as we can as Christians.

quote: And I'd like you to prove I'm a "Calvinist",

Mike says: I stand corrected Please forgive me? [Embarrassed] I have no excuse I don't know why I assumed that you were a Calvinist.

AVL1984: Mike, I may be. Then again, I may not be. Either way, the accusation was unfounded and hurled in a moment of adrenaline rush. I know how that is, as I too, am guilty of the same. Your apology is definitely accepted, friend.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike [Smile]

Have a good day friend.