Is 1 John 2:2 Really a defence of Universal Atonement?

Since the OT Attonment is a picture of the what Christ would/did do, what did the OT priests do with all the left over blood that was not applied.

Lev 4:7,18 concerning Sin Attonement.

The OT attonement - the Priest would apply a small portion of the attoning blood to the horns of the alter (and or the Mercy Seat) and the rest of the attoning blood (larger portion) was to be poured out at the base of the alter and trampled under foot (for it was at the door of the congregation). Symbolizing that though all the nation was attoned for not all of the nation would recieve the attonement because some of them will not serve God. What is of NOTE is that ANY of the blood would even be poured out. Why? Because though it ALL was able to be the atoning blood, only that which was applied was the Blood of Atonement.

NT Example verse

Also: like I stated earlier from Spurgeon, read the scripture for what it says. If God in His infinate understanding used the word "world" and "all" concerning atonment that is what He ment. For He could have used a multitude of other words but it appears these two (at least for this discussion) are the ones He used to convey His idea and plan.

 

Allan said:

I have not been following this discussion so forgive me if I have misunderstood you.

It seems you are arguing that Spurgeon believed in a Universal Atonement. Is that what you are asserting?
See His "Christ's Limited Atonement":
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/etc/printer-friendly.asp?ID=402

Also, Are you arguing that the word "World" means the same thing everytime it is used? (John 12:19;Mark 1:5)

 

He said concerning "atonement".

 

Well...this is a 1st for non-universialists. Most of the time only universialists post this verses for non-universialists see what happens if you study this in full.

I hardly ever quote John Calvin, but in the case I think it is owed. Calvin said this to Pighius, Calvin's Roman Catholic opponent.


Calvin...........

Calvin's Bondage and Liberation of the Will (pg. 197, 198-199)

 

Dead in Sin. Not natural death.

Not God's Will that any perish.

Thats what we been saying all along that man chooses to not follow God.

 

Allan,

The following was left off of my last post:

Spurgeon argued against interpreting the word "World" and "All" the sameway in every passage:

"Now, that looks like a very, very great argument indeed on the other side of the question. For instance, look here. "The whole world is gone after Him." Did all the world go after Christ? "Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan." Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God, little children," and "the whole world lieth in the wicked one." Does "the whole world" there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were "of God?" The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile."
taken from: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0181.htm

 

All;
Is this before the fall that God so loved the world or after the fall?

John;
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

How long does it take to get an account activated? I don't remember mine taking so long.

He was coming from here when he spoke of the blood being accounted for;

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

He contends the father knows how many children he will have and so he knew how much blood would be needed. There are people born of the devil who are not capable of hearing the voice of the Lord. What say you?

 

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Are these the verses I am being referred to in Deuteronomy 30?

 

Matthew, chapter 3
"9": And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

If He is able to raise up children unto Abraham from stones He certainly could of raised them up if they would of believed. They were unbelievers but time and chance has happened to all.

He died for all but we must believe to receive that blood applied to our soul and wash away our sins

1 Timothy,

chapter5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8: I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting

2Cr 5:15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

 

if you really believe this, then you have a major problem to over come

 

Loved in 3:16 is the aorist tense so it carries no before of after. But I know you want more then this.

Being I feel this is speaking of the all of the elect from all over the world, He loved them before the fall and after.

when ever john 3:16 is posted freewillers forget about the next few verses.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

This is the same thing that is overlooked in John 1

 

Deut 30...and also 29

 

One more verse please
Neither do they come to the light lest their deeds be reproved.

So if they will do something then they to can join the party like (believe)

Calvin; It is on the pretext that God declares that he does not will the death of one who dies, but that he should return and live.

BBob; If God declared such a thing it would happen, so either way Calvin is wrong.

 

27: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

You do err using that Scripture that way for that is not what is says at all. jeepers sounds like someone else who used to be on here by a different name.

No, not all are called, and predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son (Christlike), justified (by His Blood) and Glorified (which is yet to come).
Only those who believe!