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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Wittenberger, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Correct. It is really a litmus test of what it means to keep the law according to God's definition rather than the definition of this rich young ruler. The rich young ruler claimed to be "good" claimed to have kept all the commandments and yet did not understand he was claiming to be "good" as God but "there is none good but one and that is God." The command to go sell all that he has and give to the poor" - would require complete dependent faith in God to sustain him since he would have nothing but God if he obeyed this. It would require him to love his neighbor as himself to give all his riches to the poor. To obey the command "come and follow me" would require faith in Christ as His Savior. This test would also determine his TRUE RICHES as well as demonstrate obedience to the first five commandments toward God and the second five commandments toward men. However, lost men are RICH IN SELF WORTH and no man has this capability to turn against themselves any more than a camel can go through the eye of a needle as this is impossible for men because they are totally depraved and it is only possibly by the power of God.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You are wrong! Note the words "YOU turn and BECOME LIKE children"


    The contextual "YOU" are his apostles. The words "become like" are terms of a simile. Again, he is simply using children to teach spiritual truth about the children of God.




    The littles ones were old enough to willingly to come to him, they are not infants. Second, "not....one of these little ones should perish" if applied your way would assume every single one of them eventually embraced the gospel and were saved OR they all died before the age of discernability so that none
    rejected the gospel because "NOT.....ONE....should perish."

    He is simply using literal children to illustrate the characteristics of spritiual children none of which shall perish.


    This does not affirm that ALL CHILDREN grow up and are saved because hell would be empty if that were the case. This affirms that out of that category "of such" there are some in heaven who presumably died as children. Baptists would assume they are those chosen by God, his elect, while not all "of such" which continued to live and grow up as adults were such elect.
     
    #182 The Biblicist, Sep 10, 2012
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  3. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    Most of what you say seems very plausible. The child in verse 2 could have been an older child. But the "little children" in the later verses were "brought" to Jesus. The later verses do not sound like Christ is using metaphors or similes. Verse 2, yes.

    And another point: the verse above says that it is not God's will that any should perish. It isn't God's will that any human being perish, but many do.
     
    #183 Wittenberger, Sep 10, 2012
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  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The same children that were brought to him he says don't forbid them to "come" to him in the very next verse.

    Hence, that leaves them in no different category than anyone else.
     
  5. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    I think you are reading too much into this verse. If the disciples forbade parents to bring their babies to Jesus and Jesus says not to forbid them to come, he didn't mean just the ones who could walk.

    The point is that they are "little children": I don't think anyone would classify an eight year old as a "little child". An eight year old is a child.

    Bottom line: he was talking about children in the later verses, not adults. "Little children" can be partakers of the kingdom of heaven.

    I am in agreement with you on the last point. All children are in the same category as adults. We are all stained by original sin and need a Savior. There is no "Age of Accountability".
     
    #185 Wittenberger, Sep 10, 2012
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  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The very same Greek term is translated "damsel" in Mark 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel <3813> is not dead, but sleepeth.

    The very same term is used to describe children sitting in the market place who are old enough to talk and mock others:

    Lu 7:32 They are like unto children <3813> sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

    I don't think you have any absolute proof that demands this text must mean they are infants. However, the term can definitely include "infants."
     
    #186 The Biblicist, Sep 10, 2012
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    First 3 classes stayed sinners and lost, only 4th group were the saved by the grace of God...
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NO! proof that God is saying that JUST as little children trust completely in thier earthly fathers, those of the Kingdom of God need to and will trust completely their heavenly Father to be saved !
     
  9. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    I am not insisting they must be infants, just that infants are not excluded. In Luke the KJV uses the word "babes".
     
  10. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    You are assuming that ALL the verses are similes. The first verse definitely is, but there is no indication that Christ's disciples were forbidding "child-like" adults from coming to him. They were little children, however you want to define "little children", not adults. You are reading into Scripture.
     
  11. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    So you do not agree with your fellow Baptist, Biblicist, that the Parable of the Sower is talking about Christians only?
     
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    No, reread his statement. He is saying exactly what I said. The first three represent religious lost while the fourth soil represents only the saved and variations between the saved in fruit production.
     
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